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Post by DM Hawk on Jul 28, 2019 11:31:49 GMT -5
Howdy folks, In our most recent update, FRC implemented several tileset re-textures that were produced by the NWN community. Hail Cormyrians! This morning FRC was updated with the following. - Texture Reskins adopted from NWN Community Contributor Zwerkules to freshen up FRC for Rural, Rural Winter, Forest, City, and Caves & Mines Tilesets. [snip] Please note: If the game gets choppy or frame rates take a hit playing through the re-textured areas, adjusting your grass settings down or disabling them may help. [snip] I've received feedback from some community members that they're having game performance issues with the new textures. I'd like to ask the FRC Community to provide feedback about the update through this poll. The poll provides each community member with two votes: - The first vote is provided for feedback about the update's appearance. - The second vote is provided for feedback about the update's performance. If your performance after the update lands in the "Runs Badly" category, please indicate below what is happening or send me a note at DM Hawk . Significant, persisting performance issues didn't surface among our play testers for this update. For those who had impacted performance we found that adjusting the grass settings resolved the issue. We're aware now that this is not the case for everyone. Going forward, we'll consider opening up testing to a wider audience for updates which may trigger significant impacts on performance.
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Post by dwarvenkoff on Jul 28, 2019 11:48:42 GMT -5
Minor error loading area, the game goes non responsive appears to crash then finally finished loading the area, once moving around everything seems fine unless there are more then 10 monsters spawning at once.
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Post by StabbingNirvana on Jul 28, 2019 14:25:27 GMT -5
The one cave tileset I did (think it was the hullack goblins) looked like vomit. This is the exact first thought I had when I first saw it but it was late and might be best to give it a second go.
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Post by jensmann on Jul 28, 2019 15:54:14 GMT -5
I choose indifferent because, while the look is generally good, the cave area has to much going on i think and it clashes with the character models, at least imo. had to reduce grass because of frame rate issues in Greatgaunt. And there is one tree model that irks me, the new one with the lower branches in the greatgaunt square, while it looks good and more distinctive in Greatgaunt, in others like the east road to VR you have four of them in close proximity and it just takes me a bit out of the immersion to see several of the exact distintive tress next to each other , but this is a very very minor issue.
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Post by FORSETIS on Jul 28, 2019 17:55:25 GMT -5
The jail tile set looks awesome. 10/10 will go to jail again.
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Post by kasama on Jul 29, 2019 0:24:56 GMT -5
I am totally against it only because Kasma no longer blends seamlessly into the grass as well as she is now taller then the grass when sitting. Grass Ninja not liking it at all.
Of course, that being said, as long as I turn off grass it works fine
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TrueBlueOriginal
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Post by TrueBlueOriginal on Jul 29, 2019 15:17:55 GMT -5
I noticed in Greatgaunt when the tileset changed that my framerate dropped from 115 fps average to 50 fps average. I can live with that, since my monitor is 59 hertz anyway, so I'm physically capped at 59 fps (monitor hertz = the monitor's actual hardware FPS).
BUT... I went to Shallybrook yesterday. My framerate in Shallybrook is back down to 5 to 6 FPS. This is with my GeForce GTX 1050ti card (w/ 4 GB VRAM). That's actually worse than my framerate was on my ten year old video card (an AGP GeForce GTS 7 with 512 MB VRAM) in Shallybrook last year (which was 8 to 12 fps).
However, worse than that, I left Shallybrook and on the way back from Shallybrook, every other zone was getting 5-6 FPS, alternating with zones (of the same tileset) that were running normally. This seemed like a weird bug as I didn't have an issue with the zones on the walk to Shallybrook from Greatgaunt. Once I reached Greatgaunt, Greatgaunt ran at 5 to 6 FPS and I couldn't navigate the zone because the game is unplayable at that framerate. I tried turning down the grass from Full Grass to Fast Grass, but this made no change to the FPS.
This seemed like a weird glitch, but the question is, is it a repeatable/reoccurring weird glitch? Because if it happens all the time it's a huge deal breaker on the tileset changes. I'm jumping in-game now to see if it occurs again. Last night it was happening just before a reset so I didn't come back after.
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TrueBlueOriginal
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Post by TrueBlueOriginal on Jul 29, 2019 16:10:19 GMT -5
I tested this again. The glitch reoccurred. I walked from Greatgaunt to Shallybrook, noting my FPS as I went. (I have the Steam FPS counter in the corner, so it constantly updates.)
In Shallybrook my FPS wasn't as bad as last night. Instead of 5-6, I got 10-12 on my way to the Burrow of the Nurturing Maiden. While there, I remembered that I was with another PC with a light source last night, so I equipped a rose with continual flame on it. On the way back from the Burrow, my FPS dropped to 9-11, so the light source seems to have been a minor cost.
The glitch doesn't actually occur in every 2nd zone, as it occurred in the 4th, 6th, and eighth zone on my way to Greatgaunt, and I remember it in those zones last night too. (Greatgaunt is the eighth zone, and it occurred there too.) In the 4th zone, my FPS slowly degraded to 10 in about the middle of the zone. In the 5th zone it went back up to 100+ (as normal), in the 6th zone it dropped immediately to 8 FPS, which impacted my steering and camera control (as there was a sluggish delay--as usual at that low FPS), and at the 7th zone (right outside GG) it was back to the normal 100+. Then in Greatgaunt it was immediately back to 8 FPS when I walked through the gate.
I exited the game and restarted EE/rejoined, and my FPS returned to 53 FPS at the east gate of Greatgaunt, so reconnecting does appear to remedy the issue.
So far, this has only happened after I leave Shallybrook but I haven't actually been anywhere but this path between Greatgaunt and Shallybrook (and their connected zones) since the tileset update. I need to check my performance in Suzail.
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TrueBlueOriginal
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Post by TrueBlueOriginal on Jul 29, 2019 16:34:19 GMT -5
Just took the caravan to Suzail. Greatgaunt --> Valkur's Roar --> Suzail, walked to the Northwest Market. Suzail seemed fine. Rode the caravan back from Suzail. Suzail --> Valkur's Roar --> Greatgaunt. My Greatgaunt framerate was in the garbage again, getting 8 FPS in Greatgaunt.
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Post by FlyingMidget on Jul 29, 2019 20:54:45 GMT -5
However, worse than that, I left Shallybrook and on the way back from Shallybrook, every other zone was getting 5-6 FPS, alternating with zones (of the same tileset) that were running normally. This seemed like a weird bug as I didn't have an issue with the zones on the walk to Shallybrook from Greatgaunt. Once I reached Greatgaunt, Greatgaunt ran at 5 to 6 FPS and I couldn't navigate the zone because the game is unplayable at that framerate. I tried turning down the grass from Full Grass to Fast Grass, but this made no change to the FPS. Please turn grass "off", restart the game (restarting is important step) and try again, "Fast grass is just as bad as full grass in the current NWN render when using Zerks grass.
FM.
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tirelesstracker
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Post by tirelesstracker on Jul 29, 2019 22:22:27 GMT -5
It's pretty, but I take a pretty big framerate hit even playing with the graphics.
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TrueBlueOriginal
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Post by TrueBlueOriginal on Jul 30, 2019 9:37:34 GMT -5
However, worse than that, I left Shallybrook and on the way back from Shallybrook, every other zone was getting 5-6 FPS, alternating with zones (of the same tileset) that were running normally. This seemed like a weird bug as I didn't have an issue with the zones on the walk to Shallybrook from Greatgaunt. Once I reached Greatgaunt, Greatgaunt ran at 5 to 6 FPS and I couldn't navigate the zone because the game is unplayable at that framerate. I tried turning down the grass from Full Grass to Fast Grass, but this made no change to the FPS. Please turn grass "off", restart the game (restarting is important step) and try again, "Fast grass is just as bad as full grass in the current NWN render when using Zerks grass. FM.
I thought this tileset change as supposed to be an upgrade? If grass has to be turned completely off, this is a visual downgrade. The new tree models look nice, but other than that and the grass, the only change I really see most of the time is more visible ruts in the road. I haven't spent much time in Suzail since the update. It seemed to run fine while I was there, and had a different look. The issue I have isn't really about the grass though. My game is playable in Greatgaunt at 50 fps, and I get similar framerates (with full grass) most of the rural tileset that I've visited (except Shallybrook), but after traveling across a few zones, it seems the FPS just drops dramatically to an unplayable level in zones I've been in before. The detail level of the grass shouldn't affect my FPS on a round trip from Greatgaunt to Suzail and back. My performance changes in zones I've been to before.
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Post by davenutninja408 on Jul 30, 2019 9:58:00 GMT -5
I had major framerate issues at first, messing with grass halped, but I figured out my actual problem. I've been using nwncq override files since forever, disabling the rural cq tileset fixed my issues. Not sure if it'll be any use to anyone but I figured I'd mention it.
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Andros
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Post by Andros on Jul 30, 2019 10:12:55 GMT -5
Keep in mind EE has some sort of memory leak or such that causes loss of FPS as you play for long stretches (or do a lot of zone transitions, not sure which is exactly). So if restarting fixes the fps losses it's usually that.
There's also the grass issue, though I find the new forest zones to be highly immersive even without the grass, certainly more than vanilla.
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Post by xeneize on Jul 30, 2019 14:53:55 GMT -5
Love the graphics, getting normal performance when grass is turned off completely.
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TrueBlueOriginal
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Post by TrueBlueOriginal on Jul 30, 2019 15:09:23 GMT -5
Keep in mind EE has some sort of memory leak or such that causes loss of FPS as you play for long stretches (or do a lot of zone transitions, not sure which is exactly). So if restarting fixes the fps losses it's usually that. There's also the grass issue, though I find the new forest zones to be highly immersive even without the grass, certainly more than vanilla. If that's the case, it may be that it's an EE issue, not a tileset issue, and I just never experienced it until now. Anyway, the game runs fine (except Shallybrook) until it doesn't. So far I've found that a re-log solves it. I haven't seen the forest zones yet. I suppose I should visit the Bramblewood.
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Post by Lady Frost on Jul 30, 2019 22:55:20 GMT -5
Walking from Greatgaunt to Shallybrook, these areas lagged horribly. The others had no lag whatsoever. I have grass on.
Greatgaunt - Exterior Valkur's Roar - Northwestern Outskirts Valkur's Roar - Northern Outskirts - Approaching the Coast Shallybrook - Exterior
Also, the first Bramble area north from Greatgaunt did not lag at all. Skull Crag doesn't lag at all either. After I left those laggy areas, I didn't have any other lag related issues.
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Post by Runa Rothgar on Jul 30, 2019 22:58:42 GMT -5
There should be another poll about what people have for graphics/computers. :3 .Get an idea of what players with what graphics are having problems. I mean, I've played this game for years with all sorts of graphic cards, never had problems. I -also- disable grass because it's just horrible visually. ( I have Geforce 1660Ti.. and it still runs a bit slower with the grass anyways.)
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TrueBlueOriginal
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Post by TrueBlueOriginal on Jul 31, 2019 4:34:22 GMT -5
Walking from Greatgaunt to Shallybrook, these areas lagged horribly. The others had no lag whatsoever. I have grass on. Greatgaunt - Exterior Valkur's Roar - Northwestern Outskirts Valkur's Roar - Northern Outskirts - Approaching the Coast Shallybrook - Exterior Also, the first Bramble area north from Greatgaunt did not lag at all. Skull Crag doesn't lag at all either. After I left those laggy areas, I didn't have any other lag related issues. I think those were the same ones I was having problems with, but I only noticed the problem starting at Shallybrook and coming forward toward Greatgaunt. I think they're the same ones, if "Approaching the Coast" is the one with the coastline/graveyard/mortuary and "Northwestern Outskirts" is the one with the vineyards/bear cave/warthog spawn point. I also had a problem in Greatgaunt when caravaning to Suzail then back to Greatgaunt (via Valkur's Roar) and also just caravaning to Valkur's Roar and back to Greatgaunt, both causing single digit FPS in Greatgaunt. When I go from the Welcome Room to Greatgaunt, it was running "fine." (~50 fps compared to ~115 fps in the old tileset.)
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Post by DM Maleficent's Kiss on Jul 31, 2019 19:49:11 GMT -5
I always kept grass off because I hate it in general.
This hatred of mine transcends the game even since allergies suck and certain nextdoor neighbors think they need to mow completely dry grass in the summer.
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tirelesstracker
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Post by tirelesstracker on Aug 1, 2019 8:07:37 GMT -5
There should be another poll about what people have for graphics/computers. :3 .Get an idea of what players with what graphics are having problems. I mean, I've played this game for years with all sorts of graphic cards, never had problems. I -also- disable grass because it's just horrible visually. ( I have Geforce 1660Ti.. and it still runs a bit slower with the grass anyways.) This game is 17 years old. I highly doubt anyone is using 17 year old hardware currently for NWN to put a strain on their toasters.
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Post by Runa Rothgar on Aug 1, 2019 10:10:07 GMT -5
True, but if we find out what video cards (Types).. drivers are having problems. Could find a pattern!
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Post by Munroe on Aug 1, 2019 14:30:28 GMT -5
There should be another poll about what people have for graphics/computers. :3 .Get an idea of what players with what graphics are having problems. I mean, I've played this game for years with all sorts of graphic cards, never had problems. I -also- disable grass because it's just horrible visually. ( I have Geforce 1660Ti.. and it still runs a bit slower with the grass anyways.) This game is 17 years old. I highly doubt anyone is using 17 year old hardware currently for NWN to put a strain on their toasters.
The game isn't 17 years old though. We're playing Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition, which is a game that came out last year. It is built-from, emulates, and resembles a game that game out 17 years ago, and has very forgiving system requirements for a game that game out in 2018, but it isn't the same old game. They've added many subtle lighting and visual effects that wouldn't have been possible in standard NWN:HotU 1.69. Going further than that, NWN has always been a resource monster. Every time you add more content through CEP or this new tileset update, you're adding content that was not part of the original game, including, often far more complex models than were used in NWN. When you build a custom zone, you're adding placeables and resources that are not using the same design metrics as were used to design the (rather barren) zones of the original game. I can run Doom 2016 with everything turned up to Ultra except Ultra textures (not enough VRAM) and consistently get 60 FPS, yet I log into FRC and, depending on the zone, my FPS fluctuates between 8 and 200. That's not even because of the new lighting effects, which my video card can dance on. That's because different and more complex NON-vanilla resources were used in zones that are way more hardware stressful than the vanilla NWN models, and placeable objects were sometimes used with abandon. The more objects, the more the renderer has to be draw. The more complex an object--and some of the CEP objects are very complex--the more the renderer has to draw. Even in NWN:HotU 1.69, the game just got progressively more complex as new zones were added or updated by builders that had machines that could handle the additional elements without batting an eye. Most games (especially modern games) don't provide for adding your own zones and building your own worlds. When you have that freedom, you can build in ways that far exceed the original system requirements. Saying the game is old so we should all be able to handle whatever it throws at us is like saying steel has been around for centuries so we should stop complaining about someone building a skyscraper in our backywards when we're aware of the quality of our own soil and can see the foundation sagging. In summary: 1.) The game is not the same old game, it just plays the part. 2.) The difficulty of rendering a zone in NWN is limited by how complex a builder makes the zone. We've changed the default tilesets for some newer, prettier, more complex tilesets. Those aren't NWN standard, and they weren't built to the standard game system requirements either. Many placeable objects in CEP were actually exported from NWN2 and are far more complex models than comparable object types in NWN, so there's also that. This includes things like some trees and some head models. These are things that just weren't build for the original NWN specs. (BTW, if you look at the specs for original vanilla NWN and for the HotU expansion, the system requirements almost doubled between base NWN and HotU, even back when it came out just about a year after NWN. Just as an aside.) True, but if we find out what video cards (Types).. drivers are having problems. Could find a pattern!
This too!
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TrueBlueOriginal
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Post by TrueBlueOriginal on Aug 1, 2019 17:10:49 GMT -5
Just an update on my personal game performance saga:
I logged out in the Burrow of the Nurturing Matron last night after my resupply. (Yes, Kira adventured.) I logged in there today. I transitioned to Shallybrook and was getting 35 FPS at the lowest point (near the bridge in the middle). So my Shallybrook performance in that scenario was actually what I'd consider good enough for combat. (Though would go down, as normal, if more characters and magic were present.) But the point is that apparently it isn't just Shallybrook that is killing my Shallybrook framerate, but whatever is causing my framerate to drop in Greatgaunt when I've crossed several transitions too. Shallybrook, taken by itself, was still playable.
Also, Kira adventured yesterday and I told the other players I was with that I might need to log before the dungeon to reset my framerate, but my framerate was actually fine in all the zones we visited (going to the Low Road to High Horn Underdark areas, turning back after a bad run-in with some cloakers near the stone giants) until we returned to Greatgaunt at the end, where my framerate dropped to 8.
While this new tileset does impact my framerate, causing an overall decrease, I don't think it's the actual culprit of my stupid framerates in Greatgaunt and Shallybrook at all.
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Post by DM Jorteck on Aug 2, 2019 23:41:38 GMT -5
What if the tileset was a downloadable optional override/hak, or an item on the steam workshop? An EnHaNcEd FRC pack?
Currently, there's no means to revert it back to get the previous performance. I am struggling on high end hardware (1080ti, 1800x) with everything turned off getting a similar 30-40 FPS, with spikes much lower.
Give folks who are having performance issues a choice that isn't take the performance hit, or quit.
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TrueBlueOriginal
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Post by TrueBlueOriginal on Aug 3, 2019 3:38:19 GMT -5
What if the tileset was a downloadable optional override/hak, or an item on the steam workshop? An EnHaNcEd FRC pack? Currently, there's no means to revert it back to get the previous performance. I am struggling on high end hardware (1080ti, 1800x) with everything turned off getting a similar 30-40 FPS, with spikes much lower. Give folks who are having performance issues a choice that isn't take the performance hit, or quit. Your video card is better than mine (1050ti, 4GB) and I've still got everything turned up (except my resolution, which I just prefer at 1366x768). I'm getting ~50 FPS in Greatgaunt unless I leave Greatgaunt and come back. Then I get 8 FPS. Where are you getting low performance, and is it consistent?
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Post by lucesi on Aug 3, 2019 13:10:17 GMT -5
With regard to aesthetics of the new tileset, while generally I like the new look, Marsember seems to have lost its sense of ramshackle decreptitude. It all looks a bit too neat and tidy in this seedy old port town, particularly the wooden boards section.
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Post by DM Jorteck on Aug 3, 2019 14:15:02 GMT -5
Your video card is better than mine (1050ti, 4GB) and I've still got everything turned up (except my resolution, which I just prefer at 1366x768). I'm getting ~50 FPS in Greatgaunt unless I leave Greatgaunt and come back. Then I get 8 FPS. Where are you getting low performance, and is it consistent? Greatgaunt, Shallybrook, the Elf settlement, mainly grassy and forest areas. I've always had the performance degradation issues from long periods of play, but instead of starting from 120-140 FPS it now starts from 40. I only get the 8 FPS slideshow after turning grass on.
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TrueBlueOriginal
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Post by TrueBlueOriginal on Aug 4, 2019 3:29:58 GMT -5
Your video card is better than mine (1050ti, 4GB) and I've still got everything turned up (except my resolution, which I just prefer at 1366x768). I'm getting ~50 FPS in Greatgaunt unless I leave Greatgaunt and come back. Then I get 8 FPS. Where are you getting low performance, and is it consistent? Greatgaunt, Shallybrook, the Elf settlement, mainly grassy and forest areas. I've always had the performance degradation issues from long periods of play, but instead of starting from 120-140 FPS it now starts from 40. I only get the 8 FPS slideshow after turning grass on. Yeah, what can I say? I like grass. I have the same performance issues in the same locations you do, from the sound of it. I like grass though, so I get it a little worse. That's OK, I can restart my game every time I leave Greatgaunt and come back. (I don't get it when I go into the buildings in Greatgaunt, only when I go to another outdoor zone.)
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Post by MTGPackFoils on Aug 4, 2019 11:34:08 GMT -5
I really like the look, and will make adjustments as needed. I hope I don't have to turn everything off, but these improvements seem to make things a bit more lively. So far I have only walked around GG, and the lands between there, Valkur's Roar, and the Mistwood.
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