|
Post by grivel on Jul 22, 2019 16:12:49 GMT -5
Reading all this talk about the event makes me wish I had been able to attend. I have come to expect all of the problems mentioned and I appreciate all the hard work the DMs do. Well, I guess I'll just have to be satisfied with Manus' smackdown of Vindel earlier.
|
|
|
Post by malclave on Jul 22, 2019 16:18:27 GMT -5
Reading all this talk about the event makes me wish I had been able to attend. I have come to expect all of the problems mentioned and I appreciate all the hard work the DMs do. Well, I guess I'll just have to be satisfied with Manus' smackdown of Vindel earlier. Things would have been a LOT easier had you been there. We could have enticed Matthias's (NPC) retainers to switch sides with your baked goods. "Come to the Dwarf side. We have cookies. "
|
|
unas
New Member
Discord: unas #8223
Posts: 92
|
Post by unas on Jul 22, 2019 22:03:43 GMT -5
Expect to Disconnect, and likely disconnect multiple times. Can we hand out disconnect award? I'm sure I was upwards of 10 by the end of it? I should've counted, just for dramatic and comical affect. (Note: I say this all in good humor. I know disconnects aren't a server-exclusive issue. And is something that can't really be fixed by builders and DM staff. <3 I make fun out of it by playing "Disconnect Race" with Delvar. Not that he knows it... until now. xD See who disconnects the most in the span of time.) We were playing this since friday! But I think we're tied now XD
|
|
unas
New Member
Discord: unas #8223
Posts: 92
|
Post by unas on Jul 22, 2019 22:09:27 GMT -5
Reading all this talk about the event makes me wish I had been able to attend. I have come to expect all of the problems mentioned and I appreciate all the hard work the DMs do. Well, I guess I'll just have to be satisfied with Manus' smackdown of Vindel earlier. Things would have been a LOT easier had you been there. We could have enticed Matthias's (NPC) retainers to switch sides with your baked goods. "Come to the Dwarf side. We have cookies. " I think on the first two hits from Manus they would surrender XD
|
|
|
Post by Dobian on Jul 22, 2019 22:31:43 GMT -5
I know I said a couple of times yesterday, "I wish Manus was here."
|
|
|
Post by offduty on Jul 23, 2019 4:13:06 GMT -5
I thought it was an epic battle. The DM's put a lot of time and effort into it. After the event was over I checked the remains and there was a lot of gold and scrolls left behind. Hmmm who ever ran around collecting that regained some of their losses.
The faction bug was the one serious problem I seen both sides were having. I also know the DM team was working hard to try and fix it. There is only way to test something new like that and well you all were crash test dummy's.
As to supplies used I was having to much fun running around healing the "puppies" (Sorry to the person who made the OOC comment. "What the?" and thought the dm's was healing the pups.) At that point I was just in it for the fun and that was some funny stuff.
After all was said and done I was in it for the RP value that led up to the battle (Months worth of it.) and the rp that will go on for days, weeks, and month's afterwords. The whole event has made a huge impact on my character and I plan to rp it. I think life changing events like this are the best. You can go to war against orcs, or whatever and find the same issues when it's a huge scale like this was. To go to war against friends now that is epic.
|
|
malleus
Old School
The first breath is the beginning of death.
Posts: 450
|
Post by malleus on Jul 23, 2019 6:30:58 GMT -5
for anyone that wish to see it Dobian did a stream on twitch. know that all this is ooc information if you where not there or was playing on the other side of the board so dont in any way use IC what you see here… and to be honest in doubt if i should even post it, but seeing that so much is already been told here, i see no further harm in it.. this may also give the DM team time to review some of the minor bugs and stuff.
|
|
|
Post by StabbingNirvana on Jul 23, 2019 6:59:00 GMT -5
Scrubbed through to different parts and it looks like it was relatively lagless. And I was also told that by another person, which is good to hear and see.
|
|
|
Post by ID10Tango on Jul 23, 2019 7:01:17 GMT -5
Since we're sharing, Mobius spent a LOT of time in-game surveying the land and scoping things out so I'll share for transparency that had you taken the path from the Bramble you would have been MUCH better off. You still would've hit a barricade, but there was no high ground for us to attack from and I don't think Hawk placed hardly any NPCs over there, but even if he had they would have been straight ahead and more susceptible to ranged attacks while melees dealt with the barricades, and would have taken us a bit more by surprise since we weren't on that side of the map. I placed my bets and our defenses almost entirely on GG West Gate and the path from the forest maze and swimming pond, and you entered through the kill zone I will also share for transparency that once we fell back we knew all was lost, that Marister forces would now have access to the Hook Horror cave and be able to fully buff again. We suffered through the wild magic trying to rebuff and lost (2 I think?) players due to fatigue but added one late arrival, so at the Graveyard in front of Zorastryl Keep we were down to 1 spell that made it through (Mass Haste) 1 melee guy that died, and the rest of us chose to flee through the portal. Thanks for the fun Edit: I'll also share that like an idiot (see username) when I saw the Shout allowing for rest Mobius took it without thinking and lost all his buffs (so many tells "WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!" LOL woops), so Mobius wasnt fully buffed at the Graveyard
|
|
|
Post by MTGPackFoils on Jul 24, 2019 10:10:55 GMT -5
My favorite part of all of this was the defensive set up of the barricades. It was very well done, and thought was put into it from a standpoint of how Mathias’s men (and women) would defend it, and how the others with Marister would approach Mathias’s lands.
|
|
HarleyKyn
New Member
I might be potato adjacent~
Posts: 57
|
Post by HarleyKyn on Jul 24, 2019 10:46:12 GMT -5
Scrubbed through to different parts and it looks like it was relatively lagless. And I was also told that by another person, which is good to hear and see. Aye! I will say I didn't have lag on my side. (I also have all the visual effects turned off just to save where I can in terms of environment effect based lag.) Obviously not speaking for everyone. Just lil ol' me.
|
|
|
Post by uriziel on Jul 24, 2019 11:10:22 GMT -5
I don't dislike the barricades per say. I dislike that there was no opportunity to react to them, and that the hitboxes on them could be wonky. At one point, I was trying to hit one and my character went to the other side of it, triggered a bunch of traps before I could stop him from running through a place I knew would be trapped.
It created an advantage for you guys, but when you look at it from an RP perspective: Do you really think an Alaghor, a Barakor, two Mercenary commanders, a former Swordcaptain would look down the way and go "Yeah, we can totes take these barricades on when they've got a strong height advantage."
These kinds of characters would be strategy minded people. For two of these characters, it goes against their religion, literally. Clangeddin "Lives should never be thrown away foolishly..." Gorm "They also acted as bodyguards, and taught locals the value of alertness and vigilance." Neither priest would've looked at that down the road and gone "Yep that's a great plan."
Had I been able to see it, I would've told us to double back to the forest maze, cut a line through the trees. Slower going, but running in there was suicide.
|
|
|
Post by ID10Tango on Jul 24, 2019 11:23:19 GMT -5
EDIT: this is not me bashing you guys and gals, just some constructive criticism*
What I'm hearing and seeing is nobody bothered to scout ahead through the transition. That's on you. Don't blame the mechanics of not being able to see through transitions.
There was a scout that was caught during the Parlay in GG, and who saw the barricade from the Bramble. If they didn't share that information, or it was ignored and you thought there wouldn't be more, that was a judgment/strategy error and that's also on you.
|
|
|
Post by uriziel on Jul 24, 2019 11:39:27 GMT -5
EDIT: this is not me bashing you guys and gals, just some constructive criticism* What I'm hearing and seeing is nobody bothered to scout ahead through the transition. That's on you. Don't blame the mechanics of not being able to see through transitions. There was a scout that was caught during the Parlay in GG, and who saw the barricade from the Bramble. If they didn't share that information, or it was ignored and you thought there wouldn't be more, that was a judgment/strategy error and that's also on you. Well, given we we're attacked as we spawned in, not really a thing we could scout, now is it.
|
|
Andros
Old School
I only know that I know nothing
Posts: 437
|
Post by Andros on Jul 24, 2019 12:06:04 GMT -5
EDIT: this is not me bashing you guys and gals, just some constructive criticism* What I'm hearing and seeing is nobody bothered to scout ahead through the transition. That's on you. Don't blame the mechanics of not being able to see through transitions. There was a scout that was caught during the Parlay in GG, and who saw the barricade from the Bramble. If they didn't share that information, or it was ignored and you thought there wouldn't be more, that was a judgment/strategy error and that's also on you. Well, given we we're attacked as we spawned in, not really a thing we could scout, now is it. I agree that spawn camping is BS, but it is certainly possible to send a scout under stealth to see what you will be spawning into. And even if that scout dies it's better to have one man down than ten. I hope your strategist character called for a retreat when he saw the mess his forces had walked into.
|
|
|
Post by Lady Frost on Jul 24, 2019 12:15:10 GMT -5
As I said, I wasn't there, but generally, I side on not using transitions as an IC tool and I'm a bit surprised the DM's would let barricades be used right after a transition. There's too many OOC / mechanical elements to consider when you force a battle on a transition, such as forcing people to enter into combat/traps blindly (or without a chance to roll to see something/someone), forcing a group that might otherwise be spread out to be on top of each other where AOEs can be put down that might otherwise never work, forcing characters who are behind to walk right up to the front lines without an ability to stop and watch or support from distance (which includes forcing a character to walk into an AoE that they should otherwise easily be able to see and stay back from), accidentally clicking on the transition and being taken out of combat, etc.
Secondly, many areas, especially older ones, tend to come to chokepoints at transitions, a place where large groups should naturally be hesitant to enter through. Not allowing scouts and groups to see from a distance what the chokepoint might be harboring feels like abuse of the mechanics. Being able to see something visually takes so much less time. If a scout approached a barricade through a transition and was stoned, by the time any RP could take place back to the group others may already be transitioning behind them, whereas if it was in the open everyone would easily have been able to see it and stay back or respond appropriately, or remove the stone from distance and not have to walk right up to where the incident happened and temp they are attacked too.
This is also why I dislike battles at the edge of towns and cities. Way too often nothing is happening in the city tile, but once you transition there are a dozen epic monsters murdering everyone and you're instantly in the middle of it. I can't count how many deaths I've suffered at the hands of that. It's very unrealistic and frustrating.
|
|
|
Post by uriziel on Jul 24, 2019 12:15:12 GMT -5
Wasn't any time to react to do that for me.
|
|
|
Post by offduty on Jul 24, 2019 14:22:50 GMT -5
I play scouts more than any other character type. What I have found in my ten years here playing in every situation. People do not usually make full use of their scouts. I can't count the number of times in one trip that Lynn would lecture Holanace and Vel for not waiting for her to scout, remove traps, or pick locks. It took many lectures to train them how to work with a scout. Sorry boys not meaning to single you out or pick on you. I was honestly laughing my butt off behind the screen. What I seen during this event was everyone rushing through the transitions if a scout went ahead no one really waited for them to come to report. I know, I know spells are on a timer and in wild magic zones you can't risk them falling. So instead you died? Guess what spells instantly gone. There is nothing more annoying to someone who plays a scout effectively than a group who charges ahead of them and doesn't listen. It makes a scout feel useless in groups. What are they for? You rush past into an ambush. You trip all the traps? Are we just there to pick the locks so you can get all the loot? Make use of all of your resources, and scouts can be the best recourse you have.
As to spawning through the AT into an ambush. I seen both sides guilty of doing that very same thing. So in this event that wasn't a one sided thing happening. How many times has players used that to their advantage in a DM event vs them against orcs or whatever? I have yet to hear a DM cry about they killed 30 orcs I spawned in on them almost instantly. I'm not for or against those tactics being used on either side. Again this is where scouts can be helpful. If you have a good scout and they die as soon as they go through and don't return guess what? Find another way to go. There was several options and roads to take this time.
What I loved about the whole event was the fact that everyone got to partake in it. No one was left out unless they wanted to be of course. It would of been impossible to set this up per level ranges due to the fact that Matthias side only had a few players playing. Honestly folks just the Volunteers alone had more players than Matthais side. Then you had all the mid range and high levels.
Another thing that made this awesome it wasn't just the few bad guys who lost. Everyone lost by feeding into the chaos god. So it was a no win for either side. Sure you took the keep and land back but at what cost later on down the road?
Personally I have loved the whole event from the star metal falling up to now. I'm sure I will love what is to come in the future. The DM's worked hard to make this as close to a real live civil war as they could. Anyone who has gone to war will tell you an army will use every advantage they can find to their own advantage. Is it fair? Of course it's not fair it's never going to be fair. That's life and that's how this game works. I ran back and forth all over the playing field just watching, listening. Thinking to myself how would I do this or that. The advantage I had with my hide and move silently skills. I had advantages the dm's didn't. I wasn't trying to run a game over several area's. I wasn't trying to fix bug issue's. I didn't worry about if I spawn this in will be to much for the basic levels in the area or too little.
All in all this was the best battle I have seen yet on this server, and I hope see more of the. Two thumbs up to the dm's and all the players who got involved. Just my two scents. Not here to upset anyone but I know I have and I'm sorry.
|
|
|
Post by Southpaw on Jul 24, 2019 14:30:18 GMT -5
If people are going to break down a barricade, from a purely IC POV, an archer should be able to shoot from a distance at anything attacking the melee fighters who are breaking down the barricade without the archers being in range to any enemies that don’t have similar range. I think Ladyfrost covered that point very well.
Please do not misunderstand, I do not think for one second anyone intended to take advantage of transitions for tactical advantage. Putting myself in the shoes of Team Mathias, I think they stood in their own position on the map and made decisions on how best to defend themselves according to what they saw from their own side, and they were good decisions. But I also think that between the players and the DM’s overseeing, no one apparently evaluated the layout for what it would be like for those coming through the transitions. For my part, I didn’t make my initial comments on “transition camping” in a spirit of criticizing what was done, but to look ahead and ask for this to be remembered in the future. One of the instances I mentioned before wasn’t PVP, but walking in on the super duper hounds towards the end. I actually misspoke in my first post about that encounter, because having been transition camped before, and getting spotted in stealth by everything all event long, I had taken enough invisibility potion’s to get one past the surges before transitioning, and it’s the only reason I didn’t die when I came through the transition right into the dogs’ toes.
|
|
|
Post by malclave on Jul 24, 2019 15:08:34 GMT -5
I hope your strategist character called for a retreat when he saw the mess his forces had walked into. Would have sped things up, at least, since retreating means you're done.
|
|
Nicoen
Proven Member
Posts: 225
|
Post by Nicoen on Jul 25, 2019 9:49:27 GMT -5
So I just skipped through the video from Rolf and his companions point of view, and I assume the barricades you are complaining about are the ones in the area Greatgaunt - West of.
You took no time to scout and just charged into another area, an area that most of the characters there should know very well and be aware of the fact that it transitions into a thin path that would be ideal for an ambush or chokepoint. One person sticking his head in quietly would be enough to prevent the chaos that occurred afterwards. To me it looks like your characters got what they deserved. I think it's inconsiderate to complain that other players or DM's put you in a horrible position there, through abusing mechanics, when it was just using the landscape given to them and you not using the tools and knowledge at your disposal. If it was a completely unknown and new area that you were going into, perhaps you'd have a stronger case, but this was one of the areas that pretty much every character visits more than once. The transition is also represented by an entrance into a thick patch of trees, meaning you shouldn't have been able to spot the barricades from afar even if there was no transition. Again, if it was an open area that you transitioned from, and into, your case would have been stronger, but that wasn't the case, this was a deliberately picked chokepoint right after a path through thick forest.
Also refering to your characters religions and experience as if that should prevent you from being out-maneuvered on the battlefield, and that they would never be careless going into battle or throwing away lives, seems something that you should use as roleplaying motivation going forward, having your character reflect on how they let their deities(and themselves) down by not being as thorough as they could've been(using scouts as an example), rather than hold that up against the DM's and other players as if it was their fault.
|
|
|
Post by Dobian on Jul 25, 2019 13:11:21 GMT -5
If we're talking about the same map, I don't think a scout would have made any difference. They walk forward ten feet, see a barricade at a choke point, walk back. That's about it. The assault still would have unfolded pretty much the same.
|
|
|
Post by uriziel on Jul 25, 2019 13:19:23 GMT -5
I am going to state one last thing because this threads now gotten to be accusatory and insulting rather than constructive, which is a far cry of what I wanted and what this server deserves. I've noticed that a certain group of people here are quick to insult and dismiss people whenever someone recommends something that would take away an OOC advantage to them, and from what I can tell that is a vocal minority. The people who are irritated by the things I've stated either don't make posts or do and then delete them for whatever reason. I think that's because they don't want to deal with the insults the invariably get from those who are happy taking advantage of mechanics, regardless of how that effects other people here. I get that you don't like what you percieve as whining. I also understand something far more important. You do not and should not have the right to insult other people. If you would stop and actually listen to what people in this thread are saying is they're mad that an OOC advantage had such a drastic effect IC. Many people are mad that their fun was hindered because of that. Instead you chose a response that boiled down to "lol git gud nub." and that mentality should not be tolerated by anyone. I am personally irritated and exhausted of every suggestion or critique being met with people either using veiled insults or simply flat out saying the insult by the a vocal minority who only wishes to keep abusing mechanics because it benefits them. Attitudes like this seriously hinder forward progress.
|
|
|
Post by Asgardian Grey Hawk on Jul 25, 2019 13:26:35 GMT -5
The insults and accusation were started at the start of this post. It's hard to stop a rolling ball.
|
|
|
Post by Asgardian Grey Hawk on Jul 25, 2019 13:28:20 GMT -5
I retract that statement.
|
|
|
Post by magiuss on Jul 25, 2019 14:17:53 GMT -5
If we're talking about the same map, I don't think a scout would have made any difference. They walk forward ten feet, see a barricade at a choke point, walk back. That's about it. The assault still would have unfolded pretty much the same. I to a certain point agree with you Dobian, a scout would not have changed the situation if you choose to still go in from that side, but a scout may have altered your opinion about if that was the best cause of action perhaps ?.. i don't know
|
|
|
Post by Dimitri on Jul 25, 2019 14:37:52 GMT -5
We were told we had to go on through that route by DM plan/etc. We didn't really have a choice to go elsewhere.
|
|
Nicoen
Proven Member
Posts: 225
|
Post by Nicoen on Jul 25, 2019 15:11:15 GMT -5
If we're talking about the same map, I don't think a scout would have made any difference. They walk forward ten feet, see a barricade at a choke point, walk back. That's about it. The assault still would have unfolded pretty much the same. There are other ways into the areas that they wanted to enter, they could've backed out once they learnt that it was a chokepoint and taken another route. EDIT: Unless of course you were forced to go that way by the DM. I've noticed that a certain group of people here are quick to insult and dismiss people whenever someone recommends something that would take away an OOC advantage to them, and from what I can tell that is a vocal minority. The people who are irritated by the things I've stated either don't make posts or do and then delete them for whatever reason. I think that's because they don't want to deal with the insults the invariably get from those who are happy taking advantage of mechanics, regardless of how that effects other people here. As I wrote earlier I wasn't involved in the event, nor have any stakes in it. So my replies are based on the posts in this thread and the recording of the event provided. I don't see where I have been insulting anyone in your quoted reply. I'm actually defending other players and DMs from accusations of abuse of OOC mechanics, which as I wrote, think is an inconsiderate thing to write when the outcome was as much based on your characters actions as theirs. It is important to have fun, yes, so it should be important and taken into consideration not to split the playerbase with an "us vs them" mentality. Our characters may be in opposing factions, but the playerbase is one big group of people trying to have fun and make the most of what the server and DMs offers. I get that you don't like what you percieve as whining. I also understand something far more important. You do not and should not have the right to insult other people. If you would stop and actually listen to what people in this thread are saying is they're mad that an OOC advantage had such a drastic effect IC. Many people are mad that their fun was hindered because of that. Instead you chose a response that boiled down to "lol git gud nub." and that mentality should not be tolerated by anyone. I am personally irritated and exhausted of every suggestion or critique being met with people either using veiled insults or simply flat out saying the insult by the a vocal minority who only wishes to keep abusing mechanics because it benefits them. Attitudes like this seriously hinder forward progress. I haven't called you or anyone else a whiner in my post, so I don't know where you're getting that from. I was simply presenting an argument for why the positioning of the barricades was alright both IC and OOCly. As well as describing what I saw in the video to give some context to the discussion.
|
|
|
Post by ID10Tango on Jul 25, 2019 15:20:42 GMT -5
Hey Dimitri, would you be willing to elaborate on that point? Were there any preliminary meetings held, discussions had, group decisions made, etc? i.e was it a previously agreed upon route from the start, and maybe that's why the DM led you that way?
The reason I ask is bc Team Matthias had to plan and execute for all 3 paths onto Zorastryl Land, and while we didn't know for sure which direction(s) the attack would come from we had our defenses setup for 2 of the 3. We didn't have a DM telling us what to do or where to go; it was pretty much entirely Player driven.
|
|
|
Post by malclave on Jul 25, 2019 15:33:26 GMT -5
This is largely just an inference based on my recollection of the strategy meeting on Friday, but I got the impression that the desire to go that route was largely player-driven. The DM running the Baron may have finalized the plan of the Ironsworn and Oghrann using that path, but there had been talk of PCs scouting and mapping the forest maze.
|
|