Nicoen
Proven Member
Posts: 225
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Post by Nicoen on Jul 22, 2019 6:44:58 GMT -5
I didn’t participate in the event but have been part of many events over the years, both small scale and large scale, low level and high level as well as mixed.
I think demanding or even expecting to break even or earn gold/items from participating in a DM event is a weird and entitled way to approach DM events. Your reward is the opportunity to be a part of something grand that DMs and players alike have worked hard on presenting for you. To experience it as a player and have fun, but also for your character to have been part of something unique that will be talked about for a long time, as well as provides growth and character development for your character. Not to mention the new character relations gained from being a part of it.
I’ve had expenditures way into the hundred of thousands of gold in DM events and it’s been worth it due to the experiences and character development gained from being part of them.
You choose how much you want to spend when you’re there. It’s up to you to decide when to stop, not for the DMs to reimburse everything you’ve used.
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Post by Runa Rothgar on Jul 22, 2019 6:51:33 GMT -5
(Novel.. bear with me! )
First of all thanks for the DM/staff who were involved in creating this opportunity for a fun Sunday. Building/planning etc.!
I was going to start my own thread yesterday, half wrote it and found out this one was going on, so I just erased it all and went to sleep. xD
Mechanic Concerns:
I think the level gap has been addressed for the possible Power Imbalance. It's real difficult to gauge a line between what can be considered balanced for PvP/CvC/PvE. Problem is, due to game mechanics powergaming/leveling, Players are going to have different stats (gear from years of playing) and different outcomes for their characters. If this server is going to go into a PVP/CVC/PvE realm more, there may need to be some adjustments because Epic level characters are .. well.. EPIC!. They really should be in their own realm or their own territory for any PvP/CvC/PvE battles. There should be some discussion on a separate thread of how Epic levels and lower levels should be handled. It's not going to work with epic levels versus 20 and below. I got ideas, but another thread.
I think that would be tough on DMs trying to work out 3 different level groups. 10 and below , 11-20, and 20+ .
Dis quote:
Posted by ID10Tango
''If you feel your character wasn't able to keep up, I submit to you to go back and look at those precautionary notes of the event, and perhaps reconsider your participation in any similar future events.''
<--- I hope this quote making an exception for those involved in the story. Runa has been pretty involved in this story from near beginning and I shouldn't have to -not- join because I can't keep up with battles. Many others were also involved in the story. I decided then to just give her the heal role and lay back it was not her time to shine and I am alright with that. I feeel really really bad for the people who spent their raise scrolls and stuff but DM hawk addressed that all. This event shouldn't be about PVP at all.. this is to drive a story.
The Flow of the Event.
- For all the testing it was pretty much addressed above but one thing I'd like to point is.. the Barricading right after zoning. I know the players planned the barricades and placements but placing a barricade/ trees and such right in front of a zone entrance/exit is not ideal or fair.
Example: The whole area where the Dwarves/Ironsworn pretty much got defeated was very very unfair for us. We had to literally just zone right into a barricade and get throttled. Now.. idealy if we were traveling down that path and there was NO zone we would notice that barricade and prepare for an ambush. By the time Runa was in that zone.. blade barrier was already casted.. death spells.. and other tidbits I had no time to react.. None of us in our right mind would walk -right- up to that barrier and say.. 'Huh.. look a barrier and we can't get through'. We would be wwaaaay more cautious. Planting any barricade or barrier right when we appear from a zone shouldn't happen, players need to time to spawn in the new zone , have a look around and prepare.
Roleplay and involvement :
I know Matthias side were outnumbered and felt that they were overwhelmed. I sincerely commend you all for your willingness to go against the grain! Lady Frost mentioned RP involvement and behind the scenes catering to the outcome and she is right!
Here are some RP reasons why this happened /Common Knowledge and perhaps some Insight of what may have turned the tables!
Marister and Friends/Ironsworn/ Oghrann Hammer/ Volunteers - We all put our heads together.. we all got involved and began planning separately and together.
I am not sure exactly how it all happened, but I will say on Runa's personal involvement :
- Runa gained allies/friends as best she can. It's going to be RP actions for RP results/consequences. She did her best to gain friends through the Ironsworn and dwarves, keeping her relations good with them all as best she can. She obviously made friends and they were more than allies. Runa even suggested that the Oghrann hammers join in because of the wild magic threat and other tidbits. (See below)
- Tactically, Runa assisted in driving moles, 'Lorren' for example into Matthias' ranks. Lorren was involved with not just Runa but others as well and the player did a great job for the time frame they had to play in . :3
- Rumors spread against Marister of Orc collusion and Marister planning against the Oghrann Hammers. Matthias side characters telling dwarves they cower before the crown due to orc negotiations, starting fights doesn't help in this as well. Runa got wind of this. How is this going to play out? Matthias' side spreading those rumors/causing fights actually made things worse for them. xD. Which then in turn, gained more friends and allies for Marister.
- Runa had friends that were showing up to just protect her. It's very warming to know ooc/in game. But that's the issue/drawback of playing an evil or not likable character. Runa is no dope and friends are important to her because she was a target. However, she didn't desire to use anyone, bonding with other characters/ adventuring and such helped give Marister a better chance of success because Runa was considered one of his prime advisers. She's TN alignment but prefers respectful company/friends over other she 'deems' immature/unlikable etc and she will not be seen consulting with people who give her a bad reputation. She has dropped friends because they would debase/ insult other friends in the past. She likes her balance .
- Runa was more for Truth on that keep than anything else. She was not serving Marister for status or power. She knew there were lies and deceit, so being an Oghmanyte only fueled her desire to see this through. Runa felt Marister the better man not because of some mere fiefdom, but because he was being the most honest and honorable in the ordeal. Runa considered both sides before this all escalated. Runa will most likely not be anything but an Oghmanyte in her time on FRC. This kept her focus and didn't suck her into the politics of the fiefdom.
- Other players got invovled in this all that helped with Marister and deserve credit as well! I know some players here don't have as much time as others and I did my best to try and get as many involved as I could. I enjoyed it all so far and know there is much more to do!
- I believe this also gave the DMs a perspective of what was going on , both sides.. how things were handled by all the characters involved, their RP actions helped mold the outcome of this battle. I actually commend the staff for displaying that in this event and -not- solely basing this battle on just results of a CvC/PvP battle. I would hate for Runa/Other characters to work her/their tushies off gaining allies/planning, doing all that just so mechanics/ high levels versus lower levels can win the day. If it came down to where Runa did her best and Marister's side lost due to character RP actions, then so be it!
Suggestions:
My advice to players is.. show initiative, find out who is getting involved with stories and really think about your character and how they are going to react with other characters. How can they fit in to the current events.. can they work with other people or the right people? Solo is not the answer and if you want DM involvement try to get some friends along (It is DnD after all! :3) You can play evil characters and get involved. I play an evil character on here and she is making friends (yes a likable evil character). Someone is always going to shine in a story and those beacons wanna spread it to other players because just shining alone isn't too much fun to share.
I do my best to try and think about how I can get others involved in anything I do with a DM/Staff. It's the best bet. Even if they are personal ambitions. I've even stopped or halted some DM planned events for Runa because I didn't have anyone to come with me *sad Runa*.
As stated above we all have different time frames on here.. and don't always have time to do events and stuff. I hope you all get your chance to shine on here. <3
Thanks again everyone for being involved! And if I stated anything above that might seem offensive, let me know and I'll try and clarify it , because I didn't intend to offend anyone.
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Post by shivers on Jul 22, 2019 6:52:47 GMT -5
the danger with xp and treasure nerfs is that it is counter-productive with the quality and quantity of general RP. you want people to interact more - not grind. but when you testrict it, you get the opposite effect. new players will jot interact because they have to grind, grind, grind. i am kind of surprised that such an established server as this - this lesson has not been learned. as a new player and as someone who has had to say good bye to newbies (despite my best efforts to retain them), this is my biggest frustration with the server. i was initially dissapointed with missing the event - but now that i hear about the cost involved to players as well as the lack of toon progression related to such an epic event, i am glad i did miss it. i need all my money to save for equipment - i could not have afforded to participate anyway. i am just one voice here - and not a very influential one. but i think the dm’s need to revisit these issues. u am still waiting to here how the mathias side lost in the end - lol. as i understand it from player side interactions, the marriater aide did not stuck to their tactics. (just going by conversations) - i dont really know).
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Post by magiuss on Jul 22, 2019 7:57:56 GMT -5
- I believe this also gave the DMs a perspective of what was going on , both sides.. how things were handled by all the characters involved, their RP actions helped mold the outcome of this battle. I actually commend the staff for displaying that in this event and -not- solely basing this battle on just results of a CvC/PvP battle. I would hate for Runa/Other characters to work her/their tushies off gaining allies/planning, doing all that just so mechanics/ high levels versus lower levels can win the day. If it came down to where Runa did her best and Marister's side lost due to character RP actions, then so be it! I agree with most of what you are saying here Runa, But again it seems side marister thinks that it was high lvl's against low lvls... i would like to point out that 4 of the 7 Matthias supporters, yes are in the mid to last twentys.. I would like to point out.. you had that aswell if not a tad more.. then then 10 in the twenties to the mid twenties. and then 10 or more alittle below the twenties. So i don't see how the high lvl vs low lvl wins the day... If so i would argue. that Team Matthias never had a chance to win. and everyone who took that side of the team was destent to lose this battle no matter what. funny the feeling that the team marister is having more problems with this event and how it turned out. even though they were the ones to win and team Matthias had to flee or die.
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Post by hellscream123 on Jul 22, 2019 8:12:01 GMT -5
Most of the discussion is surrounding the event structure. Lets not fall into old worms of both sides pointing at the other saying "you had it easier" everyone had struggles and a rough time. The purpose of this thread is to discuss the critique of the event itself more than claim that the players just trying to have fun on our weekend. Aren't doing enough XYZ.
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Post by magiuss on Jul 22, 2019 8:16:23 GMT -5
Most of the discussion is surrounding the event structure. Lets not fall into old worms of both sides pointing at the other saying "you had it easier" everyone had struggles and a rough time. The purpose of this thread is to discuss the critique of the event itself more than claim that the players just trying to have fun on our weekend. Aren't doing enough XYZ. I agree Hellscream.
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miigwech
Proven Member
Imperfectly perfect.
Posts: 191
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Post by miigwech on Jul 22, 2019 8:51:38 GMT -5
Two cents from a complete noob to the server, who logged in for the very first time just about an hour or so before the event started:
Having absolutely no clue rp-wise what was going on, save for a brief rundown before it started, this was a fantastic way to begin being dropped into the thick of rp. Started out feeling very intimidated as my pc walked past characters outside the inn who were obviously very comfortable with one another, to being able to have an intense moment integral to my pc's beliefs and structure. Fantastic!
With two hundred some odd coins to her name at her arrival, Runa (Runa Stery) was in no shape to have tonnes of healing supplies, so she didn't simple as that. I think you spend what you want to spend during events like these.
What caused me some concern was this:
The wild magic feature is great. Love the unpredictability, understand why it is there. In an area where you know there are very new characters or lowbies at least, having it so a potion can kill you during these events can be downright discouraging. It also caused unneeded, albeit voluntary, expense to other players who were trying to raise our pitifully weak bodies only to have it backfire.
I would suggest during an event where you know a certain area is filled with such issues, perhaps after each wave if a gift from the gods or what-have-you could happen, where any lowbies killed could just be dm-raised. It would keep the fun level up, and encourage us to not give up in trying to participate.
Other than this I want to thank dm team and all the players around me for making such a great event. The patience, and kindness of the players around me helped me decide to keep at it. I look forward to more in Runa's journey.
Just as a side note, I was not concerned with any sort of treasure reward. Did feel the xp was a tad on the low side for the length of the event. On the other hand, being someone who prefers adventure and rp over easy xp or continuous grinding, I would have been startled at receiving a great amount. So hard to decide what is fair.
Thanks again!
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Post by mandene on Jul 22, 2019 11:34:22 GMT -5
I think - and this is my personal opinion - that alot of the perceived problems is based upon player expectation. I have been playing this game (NWN, not FRC) since 2002, and playing RPG servers since 2003. Every server comes with their own possibilities - and the player base, play styles and expectations are changed not only server by server, but has also developed through time. Yes, I remember the time when there were no PRCs and no epic levels and level 12 was considered super-high. (On my first rpg server there was ONE lvl 12 character, and she was treated better than epics are treated today). The server had -maybe- 30+ areas at best (that includes indoor). It ultimately was about the story between the DMs and the players - cool and weird situations, politics, plotting demons, guild-infightings, power struggles. Of course gold, xp and items were important - but they didn't seem to be as important as today.
Having been through that, the game is no longer for me about the "win". Single player RGPs give you the opportunity to be "the hero" - here, among a lot of heroes it becomes about the story we make together. So the win is a good story, and the win is the opportunity to be in a DM-event. In this case the event except for providing the "normal" challenge of fighting NPCs (I'll discuss the structure of that later), was also a PvP between imbalanced groups. On top of that it provided a challenge that throws characters out of the "same same" engine behavior and the tactics and calculations that we all fall into. When the game premise changes - so should your playing tactics, and so should also your characters behavior. Frankly, I don't understand how people expect an wild-magic area to not be super-challenging. The wild magic -is- the challenge and it was up to us players to adapt on how to handle it. The same way we adapt behavior when we start up a new character with new and different abilities. The "wild-magic" mechanics changed the way our abilities work. It should have been logical, that when spells and buffing doesn't work for us - it doesn't work for the others either. If you waste 100 spells and potions to get yourself buffed up the same way as you are used to - that's on YOU (and your character), for squandering the supplies. My personal conclusion is that game-wise the challenge was to get us out of our comfort zones and make us try some new ideas while being forced to not use our "go-to" standard tactics. It wasn't to make us loose all the stuff we have. From my perspective, the complaining about the wild magic is the proof of 1) missing the point of the entire exercise 2) failing the challenge 3) proving the DMs once again, that the players nowadays don't really want to be challenged, but want an easy, banana skin slips with same-same mechanics, tactics and recognizably "easy path" to lots of levels, xp, gear and a "win". I realise that some of you will feel offended by what I have written, but this is how I see it. Personally I want (my characters) blood, pain, and tears. Wins give you XP, but true "experience" you get through losses and difficulties. Those are the things that truly affect the character development and make them stand out from the crowd.
I promise you, the situations that are remembered the best (at least by me) are the weird or tough ones. My most remembered character story is:
I log for the first time onto a server (must have been 2004 or 2005) and find myself in the middle of a famine. They had a war 2 seasons back, and the fields were burnt down - there was no food to be gotten easy way unless you were a) extremely rich and could afford to acquire food at the city's noble quarter b) was friends with an outdoorsy person who could forage for food. Imagine not being able to eat after you rest, and having to go around with these stats all the time, except for the rare moment you get hold of a food-item (which were very rare). It was very difficult - but it provided tons and tons of roleplay (like that day my starved and exhausted character stumbled into that noblemen store where they had CAKE and she couldn't even afford a slice of bread in that store). I don't know about you guys, but this is the things I remember - not the easy, same-same "wins".
Going back to yesterday's event. I quickly realized that buffing isn't going to help any - so I tried a bit, and gave up when I couldn't buff myself fully. Knowing how expensive magic was, Ariean didn't even bother asking for any help. In a group of a LOT of people, and needing to be at a clsoe distance as an archer to actually make any difference, I quickly gave up the idea of being of any help in the battle itself. In the end, even though the battle was central to the story - there are other ways of contributing than being the one fighting it. The things I can think of fromt he top of my hat are 1) Why were so many traps triggered? Didn't the trapmasters and scouts get the opportunity to scout and remove traps? 2) Why do wizards only have to cast spells. They are very intelligent - why not use them for smarts, and healing people with healing kits (they certainly would have the skill level for that). Being at the far end of the groups, I cannot for certain know that there was no tactic being used - but it certainly didn't look like there was.
From the moment Ariean was exposed for the gas, until she was inside of the keep - I was bugged with slow movement. I couldn't do anything about it so I just rolled with it (after having tried a few times to remove it and ending up with wild magic surges and giving up). This, together with what I wrote in the previous paragraph and Ariean's views/personality she became part of the "behind auxiliary", or whatever Blue called it. A few of us stayed behind and roleplayed around doing other things, like guarding the portal. None of them were "heroic", but that doesn't mean we hadn't fun in our own ways. As I said - it's all about expectations of what has to happen for you to be satisfied with the event. Being the one that really makes a difference is difficult in a massive event like this, so it's all about finding a niche for yourself.
This leads me to the issue with the massive events. Technically I dislike them. Especially, when suddenly something you and your friends were working on behind the scenes - and suddenly it's a huge open server event . I haven't been playing much lately, and this time around I was the one butting in by happening to stumble upon it when I logged in (though I did try to involve myself "unofficially", and in Ariean's own way, in the political struggle when I was actively playing). So I considered it only fair that I didn't take an important role in it. As I see it, the huge events are a learning-in-progress experience. The DMs don't run them too often and given all the issues that are involved with running them, I believe that they've been gaining good experience in how to handle them. You guys had a few ideas that seem great, and I think they will be incorporated in the future. It's good to know though, that this type of event is not going to be similar to small-group events. There's going to be a lot of waiting involved, and a lot of time when you're going to feel that you aren't the one that's the biggest contribution. Sometimes you're the one to shine, sometimes others will be. One of the things we players can do, is to wait with buffing up, until it is needed. The in-between wait could be exctended for players being able to rest and regain spells and buffs. This will probably make the events even longer
Finally a few words about "team evil". It must be a hell to so often be set up to loose. Once in a while Cormyr should end up with a win for the evils (would be great for our blood, sweat and tears). From what I can see, your low numbers (and of course the position of your group) forced you to a more tactical play. Kudos for getting engaged in the fight and loosing with grace. I find the rp with those captured, one of the highlights of the event.
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HarleyKyn
New Member
I might be potato adjacent~
Posts: 57
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Post by HarleyKyn on Jul 22, 2019 12:33:13 GMT -5
I think - and this is my personal opinion - that alot of the perceived problems is based upon player expectation. I have been playing this game (NWN, not FRC) since 2002, and playing RPG servers since 2003. Every server comes with their own possibilities - and the player base, play styles and expectations are changed not only server by server, but has also developed through time. Yes, I remember the time when there were no PRCs and no epic levels and level 12 was considered super-high. (On my first rpg server there was ONE lvl 12 character, and she was treated better than epics are treated today). The server had -maybe- 30+ areas at best (that includes indoor). It ultimately was about the story between the DMs and the players - cool and weird situations, politics, plotting demons, guild-infightings, power struggles. Of course gold, xp and items were important - but they didn't seem to be as important as today.
Having been through that, the game is no longer for me about the "win". Single player RGPs give you the opportunity to be "the hero" - here, among a lot of heroes it becomes about the story we make together. So the win is a good story, and the win is the opportunity to be in a DM-event. In this case the event except for providing the "normal" challenge of fighting NPCs (I'll discuss the structure of that later), was also a PvP between imbalanced groups. On top of that it provided a challenge that throws characters out of the "same same" engine behavior and the tactics and calculations that we all fall into. When the game premise changes - so should your playing tactics, and so should also your characters behavior. Frankly, I don't understand how people expect an wild-magic area to not be super-challenging. The wild magic -is- the challenge and it was up to us players to adapt on how to handle it. The same way we adapt behavior when we start up a new character with new and different abilities. The "wild-magic" mechanics changed the way our abilities work. It should have been logical, that when spells and buffing doesn't work for us - it doesn't work for the others either. If you waste 100 spells and potions to get yourself buffed up the same way as you are used to - that's on YOU (and your character), for squandering the supplies. My personal conclusion is that game-wise the challenge was to get us out of our comfort zones and make us try some new ideas while being forced to not use our "go-to" standard tactics. It wasn't to make us loose all the stuff we have. From my perspective, the complaining about the wild magic is the proof of 1) missing the point of the entire exercise 2) failing the challenge 3) proving the DMs once again, that the players nowadays don't really want to be challenged, but want an easy, banana skin slips with same-same mechanics, tactics and recognizably "easy path" to lots of levels, xp, gear and a "win". I realise that some of you will feel offended by what I have written, but this is how I see it. Personally I want (my characters) blood, pain, and tears. Wins give you XP, but true "experience" you get through losses and difficulties. Those are the things that truly affect the character development and make them stand out from the crowd.
I promise you, the situations that are remembered the best (at least by me) are the weird or tough ones. My most remembered character story is:
I log for the first time onto a server (must have been 2004 or 2005) and find myself in the middle of a famine. They had a war 2 seasons back, and the fields were burnt down - there was no food to be gotten easy way unless you were a) extremely rich and could afford to acquire food at the city's noble quarter b) was friends with an outdoorsy person who could forage for food. Imagine not being able to eat after you rest, and having to go around with these stats all the time, except for the rare moment you get hold of a food-item (which were very rare). It was very difficult - but it provided tons and tons of roleplay (like that day my starved and exhausted character stumbled into that noblemen store where they had CAKE and she couldn't even afford a slice of bread in that store). I don't know about you guys, but this is the things I remember - not the easy, same-same "wins".
Going back to yesterday's event. I quickly realized that buffing isn't going to help any - so I tried a bit, and gave up when I couldn't buff myself fully. Knowing how expensive magic was, Ariean didn't even bother asking for any help. In a group of a LOT of people, and needing to be at a clsoe distance as an archer to actually make any difference, I quickly gave up the idea of being of any help in the battle itself. In the end, even though the battle was central to the story - there are other ways of contributing than being the one fighting it. The things I can think of fromt he top of my hat are 1) Why were so many traps triggered? Didn't the trapmasters and scouts get the opportunity to scout and remove traps? 2) Why do wizards only have to cast spells. They are very intelligent - why not use them for smarts, and healing people with healing kits (they certainly would have the skill level for that). Being at the far end of the groups, I cannot for certain know that there was no tactic being used - but it certainly didn't look like there was.
From the moment Ariean was exposed for the gas, until she was inside of the keep - I was bugged with slow movement. I couldn't do anything about it so I just rolled with it (after having tried a few times to remove it and ending up with wild magic surges and giving up). This, together with what I wrote in the previous paragraph and Ariean's views/personality she became part of the "behind auxiliary", or whatever Blue called it. A few of us stayed behind and roleplayed around doing other things, like guarding the portal. None of them were "heroic", but that doesn't mean we hadn't fun in our own ways. As I said - it's all about expectations of what has to happen for you to be satisfied with the event. Being the one that really makes a difference is difficult in a massive event like this, so it's all about finding a niche for yourself.
This leads me to the issue with the massive events. Technically I dislike them. Especially, when suddenly something you and your friends were working on behind the scenes - and suddenly it's a huge open server event . I haven't been playing much lately, and this time around I was the one butting in by happening to stumble upon it when I logged in (though I did try to involve myself "unofficially", and in Ariean's own way, in the political struggle when I was actively playing). So I considered it only fair that I didn't take an important role in it. As I see it, the huge events are a learning-in-progress experience. The DMs don't run them too often and given all the issues that are involved with running them, I believe that they've been gaining good experience in how to handle them. You guys had a few ideas that seem great, and I think they will be incorporated in the future. It's good to know though, that this type of event is not going to be similar to small-group events. There's going to be a lot of waiting involved, and a lot of time when you're going to feel that you aren't the one that's the biggest contribution. Sometimes you're the one to shine, sometimes others will be. One of the things we players can do, is to wait with buffing up, until it is needed. The in-between wait could be exctended for players being able to rest and regain spells and buffs. This will probably make the events even longer
Finally a few words about "team evil". It must be a hell to so often be set up to loose. Once in a while Cormyr should end up with a win for the evils (would be great for our blood, sweat and tears). From what I can see, your low numbers (and of course the position of your group) forced you to a more tactical play. Kudos for getting engaged in the fight and loosing with grace. I find the rp with those captured, one of the highlights of the event.
I would like to state that I didn't have an issue with the wild magic as a whole - I had issues with the wild magic on top of [everything else] that made it feel incredibly unbalanced for mid-level characters. By the time we got to finally go through the buffs had dropped off for the most part. I do actually want to throw in a huge thank you to the DMs for allowing that rest period in the middle. Even though we had buffs wearing off after that one as well, it wasn't nearly as rough. Speaking of which, for RP reasons the dwarves buffed outside of Greatgaunt, as it was stated time and time again how Greatgaunt wasn't safe for spellcasting. So we had the impression that we shouldn't cast in Greatgaunt... we had no impression of the bathhouse being a safe place to cast, at least going off of Friday's pow-wow. Mind you this is just from my perspective, I will not speak for the other dwarves and their impressions and their knowledge. That's up to them to bring forward if they desire. I would like to point out too that I -do- want a challenge. But there is a difference between a challenge, and getting obliterated because #midlevel. ^^; I know someone tried to scout at some point but they got made. I don't know what level they were. I don't know if the otherside has true-seeing. I don't know if maybe it glitched and they saw her. I just simply do not know what happened. But we did try to scout ahead through the transition and it failed. AND FOR SOME REASON MY SEARCH IS AWFUL. But that's my bad luck I'm not blaming anyone for it. As for early on like literally the start, I don't know. I can't speak for that. [ shrug emoji here ] And that brings up another point. You weren't the only one with the gas trap bug. I had it too. More than once. I had it in the first section. I actually wasn't sure where the bug came from because I'll be honest... I don't deal with gas traps enough to know they slow... and that it's eventually supposed to wear off. :'D But this is exactly the point of the thread: Hey DMs, the gas traps had a perma-slow bug. Because a -bug- isn't a challenge. A bug is a bug. That should be reported. So DMs can make a choice based on it. Keep it? Toss it? See if they can find a way to still include it without the bug cropping up? Hell, get a head count - how many people did get the bug? Is it a large enough issue to consider pulling? I don't mean 'HEY IT'S BUGGED REMOVE IT ASAP', I'm just saying look into it... see if it's okay to still keep or pull it if the bug is affecting enough people that it warrants using a different trap or some such things. Also we did have two or three people (maybe more that I'm not aware of?) who ran around trying to heal.. but the two I know of specifically are mid levels. Three? Three. And they had gone in specifically to heal too knowing that it would be useful. We actually had a heal plan but the buffs dropping kind of screwed that up ^^; Or well I should say we had a -safer- healing plan drawn up. So we -did- plan it. But once that wasn't going to work it was just straight up run around and heal as much as possible without getting killed in the process. All in all, I honestly don't see what the harm is in airing frustrations in hopes of finding better ways to go about things if better ways are found. We aren't here demanding they fix -everything- we bring up, that's nonsensical. But take what we say, sift through it, and fix whatever they feel can be fixed, or at least tweaked in some way or another. Which is what Hawk did - and probably still is doing. ^^; Somuchreading.
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Post by magiuss on Jul 22, 2019 12:51:22 GMT -5
IF you are speaking on Str reduction from Gas traps. that effect do not wear off in time. you need restoration for that.. which is why Gas traps who are ''normaly'' useless suddenly BECAME uber strong. reduce your enemys strength with no certainty.. there isn't things we didn't think about on team Matthias to give us an advantage in the siege Mandane. i Agree completely with you! well said.
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Post by uriziel on Jul 22, 2019 12:56:03 GMT -5
I would like to say, for everyone saying things that I feel boil down to "It's always been this way" or "I had problems too, so it’s fine”. Why do you want to just accept things if there’s a chance to improve them? Every time any proposal to change things for the better comes up, there’s always people who say these kinds of things. This doesn’t address the problems, it just perpetuates it.
I remember back a few years ago, for the Earblin event, there was a point where the DM's running the event put a whole bunch of healing stuff for players to stock up with/restock with. I really liked that because, while it didn't really replace my stuff, it did offer a bit of cushion. Pad the blow as it were. I think it would be nice if the DM’s did something similar for large events like this is to provide a supply box for everyone, not including a whole load of stuff in it, just like a stack of healing kits and 2 raise dead scrolls or something similar.
I disagree firmly with the mentality that if you aren’t willing to drop a whole bunch of gold you should just not play in DM events. That’s counter intuitive to the ultimate goal of any video game ever created: to have fun. If you want more people to participate, on either side, you can’t go in with this mentality.
I feel the RP behind the event was great. I think it’s pretty funny that, had the Matthias side not tried to pin Marister as colluding with the orcs, Oghrann as a whole wouldn’t have been as deeply involved. You may have had individual dwarves, but not as a group. I know for certain that, had they not, Dag would’ve just stayed way out of it as he saw it as a human problem.
I also think Runa was better able to state one of my issues, in the problem with the barricades at the transition. When I spawned in, I was behind a barricade, in a choke point with a ridgeline to shoot down at me from. If I had been able to see that as Dag, there’s no way in hell Dag would’ve gone there. Throwing away lives foolishly in a fight is literally against his religion. I do think the barricades were hard to target, mostly because once two or so people were hitting it, there was no more room to hit them in terms of their hitbox, and I couldn’t hit them from the side. NWN hitboxes can be wonky. This is a known problem.
The DM staff here is great. Legitimately nice people who just want to help us all have fun. I like to think the playerbase is similar, where we want everyone to have fun. I know I do. If we all work together OOC, we could have war and intrigue between players that would be phenomenal, epic adventures. One of my favorite IC adversaries was Trek while I was on Melchior. I was so beyond outclassed in terms of level, gear and build (Mel is legitimately a mess, it’s what I get for not planning out his build). But the sarcasm, the vitriol between him and Trek was astoundingly fun.
As negative as my comments on the event are, I don’t want to give the impression I don’t like anyone or anything about this server. This server’s got some great people, and I am excited to see big changes because that hasn’t happened for a long time. I like the idea’s of Sembian invasions and orc hordes trying to become a political power. That’s freaking awesome. But those kinds of events can’t happen if the DM’s don’t have players who want to play in them.
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HarleyKyn
New Member
I might be potato adjacent~
Posts: 57
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Post by HarleyKyn on Jul 22, 2019 12:59:31 GMT -5
IF you are speaking on Str reduction from Gas traps. that effect do not wear off in time. you need restoration for that.. which is why Gas traps who are ''normaly'' useless suddenly BECAME uber strong. reduce your enemys strength with no certainty.. there isn't things we didn't think about on team Matthias to give us an advantage in the siege Mandane. i Agree completely with you! well said. Not the strength. We were getting slowed. Strength was fine. Strength I could lesser resto away... eventually. xD Slow I could not. Slow was forever. (Pre-Carek slow.) Maybe called shots from the archers? Can NPC archers callshot? (edit: HIGH KEY DYING THAT MULTIPLE ?'S COME UP WITH A SMILIE. I'm easily amused hush. xD) Literally asking - I don't know! educatemeplease.
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Post by Fluffy the Mad on Jul 22, 2019 12:59:55 GMT -5
IF you are speaking on Str reduction from Gas traps. that effect do not wear off in time. you need restoration for that.. which is why Gas traps who are ''normaly'' useless suddenly BECAME uber strong. reduce your enemys strength with no certainty.. there isn't things we didn't think about on team Matthias to give us an advantage in the siege Mandane. i Agree completely with you! well said. You... do realize that standard gas traps don't have a strength reduction type, right? Minor is dexterity, and average/strong/deadly are all constitution-based. Deadly is 3d6 con with an aditional 3d6 con at DC 20 on the secondary save- not exactly spectacular unless one misses the first save. Not the strength. We were getting slowed. Strength was fine. Strength I could lesser resto away... eventually. xD Slow I could not. Slow was forever. (Pre-Carek slow.) Maybe called shots from the archers? Can NPC archers callshot? (edit: HIGH KEY DYING THAT MULTIPLE ?'S COME UP WITH A SMILIE. I'm easily amused hush. xD) Literally asking - I don't know! educatemeplease. Gas traps do not slow a target. If, however, you were hit with another spell (like cloudkill) that did apply a slow, that is a more likely instance. NPCs can use feat-granted abilities given to them such as called shot, crippling strike, knockdown, disarm, etc.
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Post by magiuss on Jul 22, 2019 13:04:23 GMT -5
I would like to say, for everyone saying things that I feel boil down to "It's always been this way" or "I had problems too, so it’s fine”. Why do you want to just accept things if there’s a chance to improve them? Every time any proposal to change things for the better comes up, there’s always people who say these kinds of things. This doesn’t address the problems, it just perpetuates it. I remember back a few years ago, for the Earblin event, there was a point where the DM's running the event put a whole bunch of healing stuff for players to stock up with/restock with. I really liked that because, while it didn't really replace my stuff, it did offer a bit of cushion. Pad the blow as it were. I think it would be nice if the DM’s did something similar for large events like this is to provide a supply box for everyone, not including a whole load of stuff in it, just like a stack of healing kits and 2 raise dead scrolls or something similar. Thers is a very big diffrence between PVE /PVP events.. normaly you get ''some'' kind of gold/equipment when it comes to PVE which makes up for the rescources spent, but why should the Baron supplie you and not his Army. when it comes to PVP. what makes your Character more important then the thousands of soldiers loyal to him.. you are not loyal to him. you are loyal to your clan. This isn't the DM's punishing us.. look at it from a RP perspective.. I agree on just because it has always been so, then we don't need to change it. but in this point., i don't see when the DM's should supplie anyone when it is voluntary to join these Events.. Each DM run's their Events diffrently. so don't expect just because you have gotten it once.. that it means you have the right to it every time. No DM runs it the same way.
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Post by magiuss on Jul 22, 2019 13:08:15 GMT -5
I also think Runa was better able to state one of my issues, in the problem with the barricades at the transition. When I spawned in, I was behind a barricade, in a choke point with a ridgeline to shoot down at me from. If I had been able to see that as Dag, there’s no way in hell Dag would’ve gone there. Throwing away lives foolishly in a fight is literally against his religion. I do think the barricades were hard to target, mostly because once two or so people were hitting it, there was no more room to hit them in terms of their hitbox, and I couldn’t hit them from the side. NWN hitboxes can be wonky. This is a known problem. On this one.. i under stand what you are saying on that.. but now that i have seen the video.. you guys destroyed those barricades within 30 seconds.. so i don't see the big problem here, beside the Rp aspect that Runa brought up. you would never just run towards the baracades, unless you were dwarfs, who normaly rush in.. and run over traps. grinning it off as ''the dwarven way''
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Post by magiuss on Jul 22, 2019 13:10:04 GMT -5
IF you are speaking on Str reduction from Gas traps. that effect do not wear off in time. you need restoration for that.. which is why Gas traps who are ''normaly'' useless suddenly BECAME uber strong. reduce your enemys strength with no certainty.. there isn't things we didn't think about on team Matthias to give us an advantage in the siege Mandane. i Agree completely with you! well said. You... do realize that standard gas traps don't have a strength reduction type, right? Minor is dexterity, and average/strong/deadly are all constitution-based. Deadly is 3d6 con with an aditional 3d6 con at DC 20 on the secondary save- not exactly spectacular unless one misses the first save. No i did not realise.. as i play a Wizard.. but thanks for the education..... i noticed you left out the Epic traps.
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Post by uriziel on Jul 22, 2019 13:10:32 GMT -5
I would like to say, for everyone saying things that I feel boil down to "It's always been this way" or "I had problems too, so it’s fine”. Why do you want to just accept things if there’s a chance to improve them? Every time any proposal to change things for the better comes up, there’s always people who say these kinds of things. This doesn’t address the problems, it just perpetuates it. I remember back a few years ago, for the Earblin event, there was a point where the DM's running the event put a whole bunch of healing stuff for players to stock up with/restock with. I really liked that because, while it didn't really replace my stuff, it did offer a bit of cushion. Pad the blow as it were. I think it would be nice if the DM’s did something similar for large events like this is to provide a supply box for everyone, not including a whole load of stuff in it, just like a stack of healing kits and 2 raise dead scrolls or something similar. Thers is a very big diffrence between PVE /PVP events.. normaly you get ''some'' kind of gold/equipment when it comes to PVE which makes up for the rescources spent, but why should the Baron supplie you and not his Army. when it comes to PVP. what makes your Character more important then the thousands of soldiers loyal to him.. you are not loyal to him. you are loyal to your clan. This isn't the DM's punishing us.. look at it from a RP perspective.. I agree on just because it has always been so, then we don't need to change it. but in this point., i don't see when the DM's should supplie anyone when it is voluntary to join these Events.. Each DM run's their Events diffrently. so don't expect just because you have gotten it once.. that it means you have the right to it every time. No DM runs it the same way. I suggested that they should, for large scale events, provide something. This is not based upon I was expecting the dm to supply me. I'm not saying the DM punished anyone. I'm saying that, in the future, they could do this as a way to make things more fair for the players involved. Side note: Why wouldn't the baron supply people with healing items going into combat? That's ridiculous. We're fighting his enemy. The entire idea of mercenaries is based upon the idea that you pay people who aren't loyal to you to go fight your enemy. Entire real life examples exist of mercenaries not fighting because they stopped being paid or supplied. EDIT for additional post: That was with people like Mara triple digit critting the barricade. Did ya'll make those barricades out of adamantine or something?
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Post by magiuss on Jul 22, 2019 13:13:49 GMT -5
I agree, the Enitre aspect of mercenaries are you pay them to fight, you are not obligated to supplie their things.. We had actully suggested making them permenant, but i guess hawk wanted to throw you a bone
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Post by Fluffy the Mad on Jul 22, 2019 13:16:41 GMT -5
You... do realize that standard gas traps don't have a strength reduction type, right? Minor is dexterity, and average/strong/deadly are all constitution-based. Deadly is 3d6 con with an aditional 3d6 con at DC 20 on the secondary save- not exactly spectacular unless one misses the first save. No i did not realise.. as i play a Wizard.. but thanks for the education..... i noticed you left out the Epic traps. There is no variety of epic trap for gas traps. Electric, Fire, Sonic, and Frost all have epic varieties, and the rest do not.
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Post by Asgardian Grey Hawk on Jul 22, 2019 13:22:57 GMT -5
Thers is a very big diffrence between PVE /PVP events.. normaly you get ''some'' kind of gold/equipment when it comes to PVE which makes up for the rescources spent, but why should the Baron supplie you and not his Army. when it comes to PVP. what makes your Character more important then the thousands of soldiers loyal to him.. you are not loyal to him. you are loyal to your clan. This isn't the DM's punishing us.. look at it from a RP perspective.. I agree on just because it has always been so, then we don't need to change it. but in this point., i don't see when the DM's should supplie anyone when it is voluntary to join these Events.. Each DM run's their Events diffrently. so don't expect just because you have gotten it once.. that it means you have the right to it every time. No DM runs it the same way. I suggested that they should, for large scale events, provide something. This is not based upon I was expecting the dm to supply me. I'm not saying the DM punished anyone. I'm saying that, in the future, they could do this as a way to make things more fair for the players involved. Side note: Why wouldn't the baron supply people with healing items going into combat? That's ridiculous. We're fighting his enemy. The entire idea of mercenaries is based upon the idea that you pay people who aren't loyal to you to go fight your enemy. Entire real life examples exist of mercenaries not fighting because they stopped being paid or supplied. EDIT for additional post: That was with people like Mara triple digit critting the barricade. Did ya'll make those barricades out of adamantine or something? iornwood
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Post by uriziel on Jul 22, 2019 13:25:35 GMT -5
I suggested that they should, for large scale events, provide something. This is not based upon I was expecting the dm to supply me. I'm not saying the DM punished anyone. I'm saying that, in the future, they could do this as a way to make things more fair for the players involved. Side note: Why wouldn't the baron supply people with healing items going into combat? That's ridiculous. We're fighting his enemy. The entire idea of mercenaries is based upon the idea that you pay people who aren't loyal to you to go fight your enemy. Entire real life examples exist of mercenaries not fighting because they stopped being paid or supplied. EDIT for additional post: That was with people like Mara triple digit critting the barricade. Did ya'll make those barricades out of adamantine or something? iornwood Seriously? If so, good job on the planning. But it's a little odd to have that much ironwood anywhere.
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Post by mandene on Jul 22, 2019 13:34:49 GMT -5
My slowdown was a bug. No stats were affected, I had more than 100lbs left (checked that out). It also seemed like I was getting slower and slower with time. A dm fixed it when I was in the keep.
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Post by mandene on Jul 22, 2019 13:37:16 GMT -5
IF you are speaking on Str reduction from Gas traps. that effect do not wear off in time. you need restoration for that.. which is why Gas traps who are ''normaly'' useless suddenly BECAME uber strong. reduce your enemys strength with no certainty.. there isn't things we didn't think about on team Matthias to give us an advantage in the siege Mandane. i Agree completely with you! well said. Sounds like you guys used The wild magic to your advantage. Good job!!!
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Post by iangallowglas on Jul 22, 2019 13:59:39 GMT -5
My slowdown was a bug. No stats were affected, I had more than 100lbs left (checked that out). It also seemed like I was getting slower and slower with time. A dm fixed it when I was in the keep. I also had this problem. As to the post, the event went pretty much as I expected, but I've been here and done these events for 12 years. I can see how it might be problematic for newer players to the server. Here are my rules/expectations for events like this one (or really any DM event) as a long time player:Expect to die...it's exceeding rare for my characters not to die in these events. (Seamus died Yesterday) Don't use supplies, unless your character can afford to lose them. Some other player or a Dm will raise you or heal you eventually. (Seamus spent supplies yesterday, because he can afford them). Lag...nuff said Cast only hour-long buffs before the fighting begins - everything else will almost always wear off. Be on time for the event, but expect it to start late (can be as much as an hour or two late). - They just always start late Expect to Disconnect, and likely disconnect multiple times. Don't wait till the last minute to heal, because your already dead at that point. Heal no later than when your at half hp. Don't expect gold, xp, or items. You may get some or all of them, but don't expect to. Run away to fight another day, and Be prepared to lose. With these expectations in mind, I generally have much fun. P.S. I also agree that we can work to make things more fun for everyone, and so far this thread seems to be mostly productive. P.S.S This is also not meant to insult anyone or dismiss anyone's ideas for change, just stating my expectations based on what I have seen over my time on FRC.
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HarleyKyn
New Member
I might be potato adjacent~
Posts: 57
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Post by HarleyKyn on Jul 22, 2019 14:15:43 GMT -5
Expect to Disconnect, and likely disconnect multiple times. Can we hand out disconnect award? I'm sure I was upwards of 10 by the end of it? I should've counted, just for dramatic and comical affect. (Note: I say this all in good humor. I know disconnects aren't a server-exclusive issue. And is something that can't really be fixed by builders and DM staff. <3 I make fun out of it by playing "Disconnect Race" with Delvar. Not that he knows it... until now. xD See who disconnects the most in the span of time.)
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Post by malclave on Jul 22, 2019 14:21:46 GMT -5
The "wild-magic" mechanics changed the way our abilities work. It should have been logical, that when spells and buffing doesn't work for us - it doesn't work for the others either. If you waste 100 spells and potions to get yourself buffed up the same way as you are used to - that's on YOU (and your character), for squandering the supplies.
I don't think the complaints about resources used were in relation to buffs... they were about healing kits and Raise/ Rez scrolls. But I guess the blame for those falls on the people who wasted them trying to make it so other people could actually play the game. I would like to remark, though, that the grass in the area between Eldath's Pond and Greatgaunt tastes much better than dungeon and cavern floors. So at least there's that.
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Post by sirnathaniel on Jul 22, 2019 15:10:25 GMT -5
I missed it! But I did have fun exploring the after math. The suspense of who won and who lost. The possibility of getting attacked by the wrong faction. Trying to figure out what happened. It was great. Good job everybody that was involved.
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Andros
Old School
I only know that I know nothing
Posts: 437
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Post by Andros on Jul 22, 2019 15:14:46 GMT -5
I feel like a lot of the complaints presented in this thread are things players themselves should be able to anticipate and do better. Hopefully we can all learn and improve for next time, DMs and players alike.
Too many people are focused on winning and not enough on trying to have fun being part of an epic story. This is a role-playing game not a football game.
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Post by Asgardian Grey Hawk on Jul 22, 2019 15:16:43 GMT -5
I feel like a lot of the complaints presented in this thread are things players themselves should be able to anticipate and do better. Hopefully we can all learn and improve for next time, DMs and players alike. Too many people are focused on winning and not enough on trying to have fun being part of an epic story. This is a role-playing game not a football game. this wins the thread
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HarleyKyn
New Member
I might be potato adjacent~
Posts: 57
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Post by HarleyKyn on Jul 22, 2019 15:33:51 GMT -5
I feel like a lot of the complaints presented in this thread are things players themselves should be able to anticipate and do better. Hopefully we can all learn and improve for next time, DMs and players alike. Too many people are focused on winning and not enough on trying to have fun being part of an epic story. This is a role-playing game not a football game. I will say that quite a few issues brought up were less about who won, and more about players 'participating' but not really participating due to level gaps. (Noteably it seems to have affect the mid-level-ers) Like Malclave said, some healing supplies had been spent in hopes of giving people a chance to play in the actual fight. Which I find to be overwhelmingly kind and generous from an OOC stand point. And it makes me feel a little bad because I know someone wasted a few kits or salves on me while I stood in poison to hit archers because it's the only line of sight I had. Sorry!! And there are a decent share of actual mechanical issues that were brought up, as well. Player error was there as well, don't get me wrong. But those are things that can easily be addressed in an RP fashion. Quite a bit of what is here is more something that can only be addressed by DMs (or build staff if it falls under their domain). When I say addressed I also mean DM's addressing it (quietly or publicly) that [suggestion A] can't be done because of [reason]. But at least it leaves it open for them to know how much of something might be frustrating. ^-^
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