|
Post by Windhover on Mar 23, 2019 12:57:13 GMT -5
Maybe this is a silly question, but uhh...
Can other characters tell the alingment of level 20+ monks due to the color of their glowy eyes?
|
|
|
Post by Animayhem on Mar 23, 2019 16:16:43 GMT -5
Apologies I was going to ask something similar and I think this line of questioning fits without a separate thread. In game do we really see glowing eyes or is that just mechanics?
|
|
|
Post by Munroe on Mar 23, 2019 16:22:06 GMT -5
Maybe this is a silly question, but uhh...
Can other characters tell the alingment of level 20+ monks due to the color of their glowy eyes? The eyes are certainly visible. (We've discussed making it so the monk's player can toggle the effect on or off before, but that doesn't exist in the current game world.) However, whether that means the character can tell their moral alignment is debatable. Certainly, a person with red glowing eyes is more ominous than someone with blue glowing eyes, right? But does that mean they're evil? How much does your character know about monks that have achieved "enlightenment?" I don't expect there are many monks running around with glowing eyes of any color. I can think of three off the top of my head. Of those three, I think all of them have red eyes. Characters with 20 or more monk levels are ascended to outsiders, though they can still be brought back from the dead as if they were creatures of their previous type. I'd expect other monks might have some idea what's up with the eye coloration, as they're working toward that same apotheosis, and characters with specific knowledge of outsiders would have a greater chance of knowing what the eyes mean. Of course any character with a high enough Lore could reach a reasonable conclusion too, but how much Lore would be needed for that? What would the DC even be? Of course not knowing what they mean is no reason to prevent characters from jumping to conclusions. Glowing eyes are creepy, regardless of their color. But especially the red and purple ones, IMO. Whether or not they are Evil, they can certainly LOOK evil. Just remember, even if your character thinks someone is evil, the law doesn't protect people based on alignment. The law is also blind and deaf, so likely doesn't know that monks become outsiders. Apologies I was going to ask something similar and I think this line of questioning fits without a separate thread. In game do we really see glowing eyes or is that just mechanics? The eyes are visible. That may not always remain the case, as we've discussed allowing players to toggle the effect. You can see the eyes and, assuming no issues with your screen colors or your color perception, you can differentiate their colors.
|
|
|
Post by nemusator on Mar 26, 2019 14:48:25 GMT -5
An excellent question and even better reply. I would like to stretch the question a bit more, instead of asking a new one, given the similarity. In PNP, monks become outsiders when reaching level 20. In Nwn that is not the case however, or at least all sources I found about the topic say the same? The main reason for becoming an outsider is that it is considered that only outsiders can reach that level of enlightenment? So, what is more accurate:
-To presume my monk has reached a certain "outsiderish" state of enlightenment without actually becoming an outsider.
Or:
-Has become an outsider in regards to his enlightenment but only in regards to it.
Or:
-Something third.
Also I liked the explanation about eye coloration perception and monk's insight about... Yet... I think it is alright that my character is a bit vary about red glow, in regards to reasons listed above. Yet, even with the insight, I don't think he should just "unfriend" someone cause of the red glow? Sure, vary, aware of it's meaning and cautious, but am I in right that he shouldn't automatically perceive a person as evil or neutral just by the color of their eyes?
That would be all the stretching from me. Kind thanks in advance for clarification/reply/comment.
|
|
|
Post by Munroe on Mar 26, 2019 20:23:04 GMT -5
An excellent question and even better reply. I would like to stretch the question a bit more, instead of asking a new one, given the similarity. In PNP, monks become outsiders when reaching level 20. In Nwn that is not the case however, or at least all sources I found about the topic say the same? The main reason for becoming an outsider is that it is considered that only outsiders can reach that level of enlightenment? So, what is more accurate: -To presume my monk has reached a certain "outsiderish" state of enlightenment without actually becoming an outsider. Or: -Has become an outsider in regards to his enlightenment but only in regards to it. Or: -Something third. Also I liked the explanation about eye coloration perception and monk's insight about... Yet... I think it is alright that my character is a bit vary about red glow, in regards to reasons listed above. Yet, even with the insight, I don't think he should just "unfriend" someone cause of the red glow? Sure, vary, aware of it's meaning and cautious, but am I in right that he shouldn't automatically perceive a person as evil or neutral just by the color of their eyes? That would be all the stretching from me. Kind thanks in advance for clarification/reply/comment. The effects of Perfect Self in NWN are: (Quoted from NWNWiki (nwn.fandom.com/wiki/Perfect_self) The effect of Perfect Self in D&D 3.5e: (Quoted from D&D Player's Handbook 3.5e, page 42.) I know in my previous post I said they're ascended to outsiders, but it doesn't actually say they become outsiders, but are treated as outsiders for spells and magical effects. This is reflected by NWN's Perfect Self by the immunity to mind-affecting spells and effects. Honestly, the NWN Perfect Self seems MORE POWERFUL since outsiders aren't normally immune to all mental effects, just ones that target humanoids, such as charm person, since they're not humanoids. But NWN is also granting immunity to charm monster and dominate monster spells, and all the other spells that don't just target humanoids. These are spells that would also normally affect outsiders unless the specific outsider kind has an immunity to the effect. As much as it's called Perfect Self, it seems to be an imperect transformation. The monk has transformed itself through perfection of mind and body. Whether they're an outsider or not in NWN is ultimately determined by what spells and effects impact them. If the character type on the sheet does not change to outsider, and the character continues to take bonus damage against humanoids, but not against outsiders, then, mechanically, they're not an outsider. But they're at least outsider-adjacent. Not all creatures perfectly reflect their Type (D&D is an exceptions-based game), so perfected monks may be one of those exceptions. Monks that have attained enlightenment are likely above such petty distinctions, except as they matter mechanically. So, is a 20+ monk an outsider in FRC? Meh. Wizards debate it. Can a monk be banished as an outsider? No, unless they can be. Can they be harmed with outsider-bane weapons? No, unless they can be. Are they immune to charm person spells? Sure, but they're also immune to charm monster spells, so it doesn't say much. Ultimately, what they are is perfected monks. If those are outsiders or not is a matter of semantics and scholarly debate.
As for whether someone wants to stop being friends with your monk because their eyes start glowing, that's up to their character to decide.
|
|