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Post by camrik on Feb 11, 2019 1:01:19 GMT -5
Hello,
The recent update (saturday Feb 9th) brought some quest related xp rebalance as indicated in the appropriate thread on the forum. I discovered some of this rebalance today as I got 100 xp for the troll's head and the orc's head (each) in Waymoot orc cave - they used to give 150xp each if I'm not mistaking. Also, the ghost tower in the hullack used to give 800 xp for destroying the phylactery. Today, i got only 150 xp.
I'm not here to debate if these are appropriate or not, I leave this to the developpement team - though frankly, the ghost tower is a no go from now on. What i would like to know, however, is if the said rebalancing was more an all across decrease in the quest related xp and if this is the case, is this decrease balanced somehow by some other way to gain some xp? For low and average level PCs, gaining xp is not a problem. But at high levels, most monsters give you 1 xp (with the exception of a few donjons) and quest related xp was one of the few reliable ways to gain a reasonable amount of xp. Did you guys feel that high level PC advenced too fast?
I have other questions related to the matter at hand, but I'll wait to hear from the DMs before going any further.
Thanks in advance
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Post by DM Sauron on Feb 11, 2019 1:30:24 GMT -5
Please put DM:Q&A in the title of threads meant for this board.
Without revealing more than I as JrEDM should, I can tell you that I would take this change any day, instead of an alternative that was being considered too.
That being said, I rather let the seniors explain the reasons of this recent change.
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Post by Munroe on Feb 11, 2019 2:04:20 GMT -5
Hello, The recent update (saturday Feb 9th) brought some quest related xp rebalance as indicated in the appropriate thread on the forum. I discovered some of this rebalance today as I got 100 xp for the troll's head and the orc's head (each) in Waymoot orc cave - they used to give 150xp each if I'm not mistaking. Also, the ghost tower in the hullack used to give 800 xp for destroying the phylactery. Today, i got only 150 xp. I'm not here to debate if these are appropriate or not, I leave this to the developpement team - though frankly, the ghost tower is a no go from now on. What i would like to know, however, is if the said rebalancing was more an all across decrease in the quest related xp and if this is the case, is this decrease balanced somehow by some other way to gain some xp? For low and average level PCs, gaining xp is not a problem. But at high levels, most monsters give you 1 xp (with the exception of a few donjons) and quest related xp was one of the few reliable ways to gain a reasonable amount of xp. Did you guys feel that high level PC advenced too fast? I have other questions related to the matter at hand, but I'll wait to hear from the DMs before going any further. Thanks in advance Simple answer: Yes, we feel that high level PCs advanced too fast. Many quests had their quest XP rewards reduced, some quite substantially. |
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Post by camrik on Feb 11, 2019 9:49:08 GMT -5
Thank you for your answer.
But I must now disagree with your assessment (high level advancing too fast). My PCs is level 29 and thus needs 30000 xp to advance next level. If I play two hours per day, 7 days per week (which is a lot of playtime, you'll convene), I might be able to make some 700-800 xp a day using the quest related xp that was in place before the update. I only discovered two of the changes so far, but I suspect that I'll be disappointed again and again in the coming days and the average xp per day estimated above will drop significantly (lets say 500-600). At that rate, it will take me roughly 2 months of intense gaming before getting my new level. And this will only get worst as the xp per monster will decrease as I level up.
With the very few very high level dongeons on the server, chances are that I'll get bored doing the same few things over and over for very few xp. I dont know if you are planning to add a few places for very high level PCs (would be a welcome addition), but the other alternative might be to limit level advancement to 30. The server, with the recent update, is more fitted for that level range than a 40 level range that, without further changes, has become more of a myth than anything else.
There is also the matter of fairness that you have surely considered: those PCs that have already reach stratospherous level will likely remain the only ones to reach it - I dont think anyone will persevere 3+ years to bring their PC from 30 to 40 doing the same few dongeons over and over.
With all my regards for your hardwork, this was meant as a constructive criticism.
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Post by Munroe on Feb 11, 2019 10:28:43 GMT -5
Thank you for your answer. But I must now disagree with your assessment (high level advancing too fast). My PCs is level 29 and thus needs 30000 xp to advance next level. If I play two hours per day, 7 days per week (which is a lot of playtime, you'll convene), I might be able to make some 700-800 xp a day using the quest related xp that was in place before the update. I only discovered two of the changes so far, but I suspect that I'll be disappointed again and again in the coming days and the average xp per day estimated above will drop significantly (lets say 500-600). At that rate, it will take me roughly 2 months of intense gaming before getting my new level. And this will only get worst as the xp per monster will decrease as I level up. With the very few very high level dongeons on the server, chances are that I'll get bored doing the same few things over and over for very few xp. I dont know if you are planning to add a few places for very high level PCs (would be a welcome addition), but the other alternative might be to limit level advancement to 30. The server, with the recent update, is more fitted for that level range than a 40 level range that, without further changes, has become more of a myth than anything else. There is also the matter of fairness that you have surely considered: those PCs that have already reach stratospherous level will likely remain the only ones to reach it - I dont think anyone will persevere 3+ years to bring their PC from 30 to 40 doing the same few dongeons over and over. With all my regards for your hardwork, this was meant as a constructive criticism. If you're gaining epic levels every two months, that's too fast. The standard used to be that characters would get to level 24 or 25, and they might just be that level until some day they gained another level. In the last five years, people race for thirty; it's been relatively easy to get to 28, 29, and 30. That, however, is contrary to FRC's design goals. We've always said "don't plan to reach level 40." We had someone reach level 40 this past year, the first and only level 40, and it was one of our newer players. That was just another indicator that the XP gain in epic levels was too fast. (That player did make it a personal goal to reach 40 after we said not to plan on it too, so their pursuit of 40 was aggressive.) We're slowing it back down some. If you're making an epic level in two months, that seems gratuitous to me. For me, personally, I would prefer it were more like one epic level every six months, but that's wishful thinking, as that harkens back to days when people just didn't grind in epic levels on FRC like they do now. I regularly play on FRC, and have for years. At my rate of play, once I hit the late-teens (which are "high level," 21+ is "epic level"), I expect to gain a level every nine to twelve months. I don't adventure very often, relatively speaking, so I'm not saying we're going to slow everyone down to that rate of progression, but slow progression is an ideal. So we cut some XP on some quests, and adopted a more uniform standard. Some of the more well-known epic characters in the long history of FRC, characters that are still whispered about, were only in their low- to mid-twenties. Every level beyond 20 should be substantial, monumental.... epic, even. As for concerns of older characters remaining perpetually higher level than newer ones because of lowered XP quest rewards, people get tired of characters regardless of how powerful they are. Some PCs last forever, always meddling with their fingers in various plots, and some get shelved when their player is tired of them and doesn't think their story can grow any more. That means the number of high level PCs does actually shrink from both ends when those higher levels are harder to obtain. Characters in active plots and campaigns, whether player-driven or DM-driven, don't offer the same boredom to their players that repeating the same quests over and over for minimal gain does. If you're bored repeating the same quests then I would recommend growing your character in the world as a replacement for some of that XP. There are more ways to gain power on FRC than levels and equipment. The FRC module is always getting new content added, whether for low-, mid-, high-, or epic-levels, or not level specific at all, but mid-epic and high-epic content is always likely to be the least catered category; truly epic dungeons shouldn't be common. Instead, we expect epic-level characters (and all characters, really) to create their own agendas and work toward them. |
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Post by nemusator on Feb 11, 2019 11:13:10 GMT -5
I wasn't ever told that I shouldn't make a 40 and neither did I find anything on the forum saying that it shouldn't be done. Although proud of the achievement, I did overdo it however. My playing hours were simply unhealthy and I will not allow myself to behave in a similar manner ever again. That being said, a capable character could have gained around 4k XP, if not more just for 3-4 dungeons per week, and yes, although those are toughest dungeons on the server, it is a massive XP income.
Whenever a change occurs I don't perceive it from the personal perspective. Sure, we all want XP, but hey, if something benefits the server and the community, and I'm sure people who are devoted the most to it know what is best for the same, I'm all for that. Also lowering xp quests gain and alike doesn't necessarily have to mean slower leveling. People can just grind more. I know a few players who would have reached 40's long time ago if they only wanted. But I do understand the general idea for this change, and FRC is such an enjoyment if played moderately. So thumbs up for the change, and if the team thinks there shouldn't be a level 40 around, PM me with your thoughts, I honestly don't mind being down-leveled or adjusted for the greater good.
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Post by camrik on Feb 11, 2019 13:33:51 GMT -5
Thank you for the elaborate answer Munroe, it explains very well the philosophy of the server and, I presume, the DM and developpment team.
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Post by Munroe on Feb 11, 2019 14:17:44 GMT -5
{snipped opening of reply} We've always said "don't plan to reach level 40." We had someone reach level 40 this past year, the first and only level 40, and it was one of our newer players. That was just another indicator that the XP gain in epic levels was too fast. (That player did make it a personal goal to reach 40 after we said not to plan on it too, so their pursuit of 40 was aggressive.) {snipped remainer of reply} I wasn't ever told that I shouldn't make a 40 and neither did I find anything on the forum saying that it shouldn't be done. Although proud of the achievement, I did overdo it however. My playing hours were simply unhealthy and I will not allow myself to behave in a similar manner ever again. That being said, a capable character could have gained around 4k XP, if not more just for 3-4 dungeons per week, and yes, although those are toughest dungeons on the server, it is a massive XP income. Whenever a change occurs I don't perceive it from the personal perspective. Sure, we all want XP, but hey, if something benefits the server and the community, and I'm sure people who are devoted the most to it know what is best for the same, I'm all for that. Also lowering xp quests gain and alike doesn't necessarily have to mean slower leveling. People can just grind more. I know a few players who would have reached 40's long time ago if they only wanted. But I do understand the general idea for this change, and FRC is such an enjoyment if played moderately. So thumbs up for the change, and if the team thinks there shouldn't be a level 40 around, PM me with your thoughts, I honestly don't mind being down-leveled or adjusted for the greater good. You're fine at 40, nemusator. You took up the challenge and you pulled it off, for what it's worth. Nobody would tell you that you shouldn't achieve 40. After all, 40 is the server's level cap. We would only say that you shouldn't plan to make it to 40, just because to do so is such an undertaking, something of a chore. You took it as a challenge though, and you wanted to be first to do it, which is a way of looking at it. We don't encourage people to play with the expectation of reaching 40, but that you have reached 40 is an achievement and I don't mean to sound like you did so in violation of some unwritten rule. It's more a statement of managing expectations due to how slow leveling is here. I admit that there are a few others that may only be a level or two away too, so you may not be the sole winner of that achievement forever. However, you can always have the badge of having been first. |
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Post by Asgardian Grey Hawk on Feb 11, 2019 15:25:43 GMT -5
If I recall the first 40 was tenaese or what ever his name was the elven guy
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Post by NHmikey on Feb 11, 2019 15:40:22 GMT -5
If I recall the first 40 was tenaese or what ever his name was the elven guy Teneas was not even remotely close to level 40. |
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Post by magiuss on Feb 12, 2019 8:48:27 GMT -5
Teneas was no higher then 26-28 AT the max..
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Post by Munroe on Feb 12, 2019 20:40:53 GMT -5
If I recall the first 40 was tenaese or what ever his name was the elven guy Teneas was not even remotely close to level 40. Teneas was no higher then 26-28 AT the max..
You guys are doing an effective job of proving my statement. (Repeated below.) Some of the more well-known epic characters in the long history of FRC, characters that are still whispered about, were only in their low- to mid-twenties. Every level beyond 20 should be substantial, monumental.... epic, even. |
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Post by Muse on Feb 13, 2019 0:49:55 GMT -5
This is a DM Q&A Thread- we should stop adding to it, and maybe move this discussion to a more appropriate sub-section of the forum. Thank you.
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