Artist credit.

[dazza555]

This is a more personal thing for me so I admit to bias.

I've noticed when people put up portrait representations of their characters, they don't always credit the original artist. Why is this?

I inquire because, as an artist, if someone saw something I did and thought: 'That's a neat representation, I think I'll use that.' I'd be thrilled. I wouldn't expect to be asked permission for something like this, because it's not for profit. But I certainly would like to be acknowledged.


Or is it just me?

Edit. P.S. I also like to look up the sources and see what else they've done.

[hellscream123]

Artwork is often found from boards of suboards or pure image farming across the plains of google. Usually they haven't found the original and thusly cannot credit the artist in kind.

At the least we're using artwork non commercially. But i understand the artistry pain of shared but not named.

[abby]

Alas, that’ll never happen. Even the banner I created for FRC got stolen to use on some Spanish-speaking server. Ah well. I’ve made quite a bit of fantasy art and as long as people are using for stuff like this, I think it’s kinda cool to see. Of course if someone monatises it and is making bucks? I want a cut.

[Muse]

I think this is a fair point, as an artist, and have often talked about and shared the work of the artists that I have been inspired by to make my characters. But I don't think I made a notation on the forum- if I made a character post. It's just something I hadn't thought about with character portrait files at all.

So! Being as it is more normal for people to speak of their characters and the art they choose... I would like to offer this method:

Google does reverse image searching, and it's really pretty good. I use this to search my own artwork online to see where someone may have posted it. (Not a huge problem I've had, I'm sorry to hear of yours Matt!) But I also use it to find the artists who artwork I love, both so I can see the rest of their portfolio- but also so that I can directly give them credit.



I love this tool ^ and it will help you find your artists. A lot of times we don't even know the source of our images because the watermarks are ripped off of them by someone else before we found them.

[Animayhem]

Jan 26, 2019 8:56:07 GMT -5 hellscream123 said:

Artwork is often found from boards of suboards or pure image farming across the plains of google. Usually they haven't found the original and thusly cannot credit the artist in kind.

At the least we're using artwork non commercially. But i understand the artistry pain of shared but not named.

I also can agree with this as an artist/ The gaming community has been around for so long many portraits.  Some of the newer artists have everything uber copyrighted and those I do not touch.

Other artists have their own sites.

The stock portraits used in NWN do not have artist names so we do not know who did them.  We are not the only pw who does.

[Dobian]

Some artists have their name on the picture or the site the picture is on. A lot of times you will click on a picture on Google Images and be sent down a rabbit hole to where the source is. Artists have the option of marking their work so you have to buy it or subscribe to their site to see the image un-obscured. Those that don't take these precautions I assume understand that their work is going to be used by others and want it to be so long as someone isn't using it commercially or selling it as their own. It's the price they pay to get mass-exposure and maybe someone hiring them for some project or other. It's free advertising.

[Fluffy the Mad]

If you're asking 'why,' it's because most art some find isn't from the original artist. Most of those I've posted over the years are like that- reposted through various sites over and over. The easy solution to that is using, as Muse suggests, reverse google searches or something like Tineye, which was the precursor to google getting their hands in it. In the game, the bottom pixels of the portraits are often (I won't say usually, because I haven't made the majority) used for credits to the people who either made or edited the images.

As for the stock portraits, most are drawn-over/edited portraits of various actors. That's why Bioware had to change them in time over patches, because a number of them weren't authorized for use.

[dazza555]

Jan 26, 2019 12:45:59 GMT -5 Dobian said:

Some artists have their name on the picture or the site the picture is on. A lot of times you will click on a picture on Google Images and be sent down a rabbit hole to where the source is. Artists have the option of marking their work so you have to buy it or subscribe to their site to see the image un-obscured. Those that don't take these precautions I assume understand that their work is going to be used by others and want it to be so long as someone isn't using it commercially or selling it as their own. It's the price they pay to get mass-exposure and maybe someone hiring them for some project or other. It's free advertising.

It's only free advertising if the artist is credited, that's my point.

[Dobian]

It's free advertising if someone clicks on their pic on Google images and gets taken to their site, is what I meant.

[tirelesstracker]

If I can find a source to credit, I give it. but given fantasy art is all over the net, being reposted a thousand times over, sometimes finding a source for art can be nigh impossible even if Google, simply because it's been posted so many place.

[lucid]

So should I not hum songs if I don't know who wrote them? That sounds like a lot of homework for me just to enjoy a tune.

With images, I don't understand why you would post them anywhere if you insist they be handled properly, duly credited, etc. They won't be. Shoulda, woulda, won't. People will take them and make money off them, too. Shirts, ads, board game kickstarters, you name it. It is your job to find them and sue them. They're not going to show up guiltily and pay you. That is not the way the world works. Complain all day, but do not pretend it's otherwise, or it will just chew you up. If it bothers you to an untenable degree, use a watermark like Shutterstock and Alamy do, marring the picture unless they buy it...but then nobody will use it at all. Is that actually better? Many people will not use it if it's signed, they don't want your name scrawled across their character's face after all.

If it goes viral and gets blasted all over the place, it will be to your benefit, if you jump on the opportunity quick enough. Credit can probably be tracked down to you. If you can say "This is my work" and someone goes "Ohhhh snap that was you, I saw that back in X-Whatever", then yes, it is free advertising.

Anyway boiling it down, should you be credited? Yes. And if I know the answer, I'll say so when asked. Should I have to do the sleuth work to track you down, risking giving credit to the -wrong- artist, just to use an image you willingly threw into the stew of the collective human consciousness, for a video game avatar? Should I even be required to post some sort of sign indicating whose work it is, like change my sig to "I use Van Gogh for my portraits"? No, I'm not doing that.

If you release it to the wild internet, expect it to be used without crediting you. Take pride in knowing that the little bird you raised now flies free.

Final thought: I have no idea who made my forum avatar, and I don't feel guilty using it.

[xeneize]

Artist credit?
Copy writes will be posted somewhere if that is the case and by default, anything posted in the internet with liberal access to being saved is, in my opinion, free to being used and modified at will.

I've gone about it this way since I started using the net and have yet to have anyone knocking on my door to yell at me for using their content.

My cents.

[mandene]

Just wait for EU to pass the "Article 11 and 13" (also known as  "Link Tax" and "Upload Filter) for the latest Copyright Directive (Directive = EU Law). And this will be a no-issue.

[lucid]

Jan 29, 2019 10:19:57 GMT -5 mandene said:

Just wait for EU to pass the "Article 11 and 13" (also known as  "Link Tax" and "Upload Filter) for the latest Copyright Directive (Directive = EU Law). And this will be a no-issue.

Actually, funny thing...Article 13 only stops you from altering the image and re-uploading it (no more memes, no more mash-ups). So you couldn't "drow-ify" an elf image, but you could totally still use it.

But I would not be surprised if custom portraits vanish altogether as a result, at the Beamdog level, because it's probably them who'll get sued, and there's no other way to enforce it.

[Muse]

Just to be clear- my stated opinion was just my own. I wasn't suggesting a rule or anything of the sort. I was just offering a tool for people to use if they wanted to research images online, with very little information outside the source image itself.

That being said: Copy Right law and international Copy Right laws are a complete mess. Intellectual Property vs Fair Use - is a nightmare.

[Manshin]

Ya that censorship bill should scare the crap out of people. I’m an artist, my images get used and taken without giving me credit and honestly, it doesn’t bother me much. I didn’t put this stuff out on the web because I didn’t want it seen and spread far and wide. As far am I’m concentned, if people think it’s good enough to use, that’s a notch on my resume. Not many people make a living from art,most of us just a make a little side cash with it and mostly do it for fun. Killling memes on the thin excuse of protecting copyright bs is just another attempt to close the walls in on what you can say.

[manicpixie]

Jan 29, 2019 9:38:37 GMT -5 lucid said:

So should I not hum songs if I don't know who wrote them? That sounds like a lot of homework for me just to enjoy a tune.

With images, I don't understand why you would post them anywhere if you insist they be handled properly, duly credited, etc. They won't be. Shoulda, woulda, won't. People will take them and make money off them, too. Shirts, ads, board game kickstarters, you name it. It is your job to find them and sue them. They're not going to show up guiltily and pay you. 

You are completely insane if you actually publish a board game or an ad using art you haven't cleared. T-shirts too, unless it's totally bootleg-style. Your project is probably going to get shut down and if you made a significant profit it you'll get sued for that and then some. If you work in any sort of industry this kind of thing will make you poison to deal with, too, and probably end your career. I say this as someone who's worked in rights and clearances in advertising and entertainment. I've seen major projects halted and artists get paid nice sums to "go away" because someone used video or music from Youtube thinking that meant it was public domain. 

Fan art is another matter, nobody's checking forums to shut down NWN players from using their elf art on their character and amateur artists usually aren't shut down on Deviantart, etc for doodling established characters. But your opinion that if it's on the internet, it's fair game is not reality when it comes to anything done on a professional level.

[Manshin]

Jan 29, 2019 19:21:18 GMT -5 manicpixie said:

Jan 29, 2019 9:38:37 GMT -5 lucid said:

So should I not hum songs if I don't know who wrote them? That sounds like a lot of homework for me just to enjoy a tune.

With images, I don't understand why you would post them anywhere if you insist they be handled properly, duly credited, etc. They won't be. Shoulda, woulda, won't. People will take them and make money off them, too. Shirts, ads, board game kickstarters, you name it. It is your job to find them and sue them. They're not going to show up guiltily and pay you. 

You are completely insane if you actually publish a board game or an ad using art you haven't cleared. T-shirts too, unless it's totally bootleg-style. Your project is probably going to get shut down and if you made a significant profit it you'll get sued for that and then some. If you work in any sort of industry this kind of thing will make you poison to deal with, too, and probably end your career. I say this as someone who's worked in rights and clearances in advertising and entertainment. I've seen major projects halted and artists get paid nice sums to "go away" because someone used video or music from Youtube thinking that meant it was public domain. 

Fan art is another matter, nobody's checking forums to shut down NWN players from using their elf art on their character and amateur artists usually aren't shut down on Deviantart, etc for doodling established characters. But your opinion that if it's on the internet, it's fair game is not reality when it comes to anything done on a professional level.

Ya... this. If some people are using my artwork to use as custom portraits or for D&D NWN servers, or other harmless, non-profit stuff, I'm okay with that. On the Mexican server, all I did was ask them to put my name on the pic and was fine with it. HOWEVER if I EVER see one of my illustrations on a published "for-profit" product, like a board-game, video game, book etc... bet your buns I'll have them in court muey rapido! There's probably some part of me secretly hoping some giant company will steal my stuff so I can retire in style off the settlement. This kind of stuff is simply not done, not by anyone who isn't insane.