abby
Old School
Posts: 323
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Post by abby on Jan 25, 2019 15:50:34 GMT -5
Creating this thread for my own RP context. I want to know how we should view personal wealth in context to the larger world.
As a quick example, there was a server I played on that was Earth Based, and it was known that no matter how much money you manage to collect as an adventurer, you were nowhere near as wealthy as a Noble. You might be able to get into the merchant class range, but NEVER rich like a noble. Legacy had the advantage of having silver, copper and gold coins, and if you got a gold coin, you felt rich... however peasants deal in copper, merchants (and successful adventurers) deal in silver, and the nobility and royals deal in gold.
I've got a plot running right now with a DM, and Abby is looking for a rich person to hatch her master plan, so she's aking inquiries of who she should talk to, but people will recommend certain adventurers, and I don't want to say they aren't rich enough because I'm not certain how wealth is dealt with in FRC.
My personal opinion is that we should treat our GP basically like copper. That way the gulf in wealth and power between the noble class and lowly adventurers is unquestionable. That will probably demand a little more respect toward the nobles, who in theory, can make or break anyone they choose. But I want an official DM response I suppose.
After all, a single ounce of gold buys you an exceptionally nice suit of whatever business attire of they day there is, going back 5000 years here on Earth.
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Post by Munroe on Jan 25, 2019 17:17:27 GMT -5
Creating this thread for my own RP context. I want to know how we should view personal wealth in context to the larger world. As a quick example, there was a server I played on that was Earth Based, and it was known that no matter how much money you manage to collect as an adventurer, you were nowhere near as wealthy as a Noble. You might be able to get into the merchant class range, but NEVER rich like a noble. Legacy had the advantage of having silver, copper and gold coins, and if you got a gold coin, you felt rich... however peasants deal in copper, merchants (and successful adventurers) deal in silver, and the nobility and royals deal in gold. I've got a plot running right now with a DM, and Abby is looking for a rich person to hatch her master plan, so she's aking inquiries of who she should talk to, but people will recommend certain adventurers, and I don't want to say they aren't rich enough because I'm not certain how wealth is dealt with in FRC. My personal opinion is that we should treat our GP basically like copper. That way the gulf in wealth and power between the noble class and lowly adventurers is unquestionable. That will probably demand a little more respect toward the nobles, who in theory, can make or break anyone they choose. But I want an official DM response I suppose. After all, a single ounce of gold buys you an exceptionally nice suit of whatever business attire of they day there is, going back 5000 years here on Earth. Nobles can live in poverty, and there are poor noble families that have squandered their wealth over generations. Nobility is status granted by the Crown, usually as an accompaniment to a grant of land (and possibly currency at the time of issuing the noble title). It is very possible for adventurers to be as rich as the nobility, but even if they have millions of gold, they will never be nobles without a noble title. Nobility and wealth do not perfectly equate. Yes, it is possible to adventurers to be as rich as nobles. However, it's very difficult for a wealthy person to buy his or her way into nobility because the existing nobility balks at casual additions to the Peerage (the body of the nobility). It's very difficult for anyone to buy their way into a noble title in any traditional kingdom because of this disdain, and pressure in the associated royal court, but even more difficult in Cormyr, where the Obarskyrs are independently wealthy and don't rely on the nobility to fund the army in any capacity. The Obarskyr Royal Family fully fund the Purple Dragon Army out of their own vast (and seemingly unending) secret family wealth. Even in such places as the Barony of Valkur's Roar, with positions like High Mage and High Priest and holders of various fiefs, these titles are Offices, not Nobility. (Office of the High Mage, Office of the High Priest, etc.) Unlike noble titles, an office title only grants the person status while they are actually the holder of that office. Not only are these titles not inherited, but they cease granting the person status if the person is no longer upholding the duties of the Office. Most of the time this doesn't come up because nobles are appointed to offices, but sometimes adventurers or commoners are appointed to offices as well. Anyway, long story short, adventurers can be filthy-rich. Even then, they're still not nobles. They're sort of like the nouveau riche, looked down on by the Old Money families of the nobility. Even newer noble lineages are looked down on by older noble lineages, and, among nobles of the same noble rank, their status among themselves is determined by how many generations each family has held that title. If you're worried about being referred to adventurers rather than NPC nobility, perhaps being wealthy isn't enough, perhaps they need social standing. That's something the nobility are born with, but adventurers have to work long and hard to earn. |
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Post by McGuffin on Jan 26, 2019 15:42:15 GMT -5
What Munroe said is exactly right. Some Nobel are very rich others are very poor. A noble is usually fief holder or a direct relative of a fief holder. The fief itself is the right to operate a thing for your own profit so long as you pay taxes up the chain. This means you have very high class nobility and very low class poor nobles. Some offices are on par with nobility as far as wealth, power, and influence but are not titled nobility.
Using VR as an example.
Sophie Miller has a fief to produce alcohol and operate establishments that sell it. Her title is "The Lady of Spirits" (meaning drinking spirits). She gets taxes from almost anything alcohol related in Valkur's Roar. She gives out fiefs under hers to the brewery, the distributor, Talbot and his Inn and the other Inn's and more. Each person who holds a sub fief of her fief are her vassals. They pay her taxes. She is a vassal to Baron Crownsilver whom she pays her taxes too. Because she is shrewd in business and has a highly sought after product she could become vastly wealth. However she drink's and parties and wastes a good bit of her wealth enjoying life.
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Post by McGuffin on Jan 26, 2019 15:47:06 GMT -5
Here is a nice concise little write up on European Feudalism which will help you understand the basic structure of a Barony. I did not write this. I just copied and pasted it here form another resource. Which I no longer remember. The northern tribes, such as the Goths and the Vandals, were savage fighters. As they migrated into Europe, each man wanted to have his own land and used whatever force was necessary to obtain it. The strongest of these men made himself king and took the largest portion of the land he had conquered. The remaining land was divided among his chief followers, with the condition that they pay him taxes and fight for him. In turn, these men divided the land they had been given by the king among other men with the same conditions they had agreed to. The dividing continued down to the smallest landholder. As a result, every man (except the king) owed something to a stronger man. The stronger man was the lord, and the weaker man was his vassal. The lord might also be the vassal of a yet more powerful lord. The Noble Men In order to obtain the land, a vassal had to pay homage to his lord. To do this, a man went down on his knees before the lord without a weapon, placed his hands between his lord's hands and promised to be his man, to serve him and fight for him. The lord then granted the man a fief. A fief was usually a piece of land, although sometimes it was a right, such as the right to fish in a stream or the right to collect a toll on a certain road A vassal could become a lord himself if he granted a piece of his fief to another man. This man would become his vassal. This system of granting and holding fiefs or feuds was known as the feudal system. Lords commanded a small army made up of vassals who owed him military service for their fiefs. When he made a law, he used this army to enforce it. However, he could not use his army to stop his vassals from fighting with each other, or to enforce laws in his vassals lands. He had to trust that his vassals would carry out his commands because he had no power except in his own lands. The lord made money by collecting tolls and custom duties from merchants traveling through his land and by requiring certain tributes from his vassals. These tributes were many, and included payment upon the knighting of the lord's eldest son and upon the marriage of his eldest daughter. However, the lord could not demand any new taxes or obligations unless his vassals agreed to them. He also had no control over his vassals' vassals. The lord was also a judge. If his vassals had disputes with one another, then they could bring the dispute to the lord to be settled. The Common People Not everyone could be a lord or a vassal though. The bottom rung of society was made up of peasants. This was the largest class of people and they did most of the work. The peasants farmed the lord's land in exchange for protection from the lord in times of war, a small strip of land that they could farm for themselves, and a house to live in. Some peasants were freemen and could move from place to place if they did not like their master. Most peasants though were serfs. Serfs belonged to the land and could not move off of it. They also could not be removed from it by their lord. Children Children belonged to the class that they were born into. It was good to be born a noble, for they enjoyed what luxuries there were and only noblemen could be earls, barons, or knights. Children of peasants on the other hand, would probably live in the same place their entire life and do the same job that their father had done. Conclusion The feudal system was not the same everywhere in Europe. It varied from country to country and even from lordship to lordship within the same country. Some parts of Europe never had this system, though it was the most prevalent government in medieval Europe. The system broke down gradually. It wasn't totally eliminated from France until the French Revolution and it lasted until 1917 in Russia. Yes, I just quoted someone quoting myself posting something I didn't write. *sigh* |
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