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Post by DM Maleficent's Kiss on Jan 24, 2019 2:26:22 GMT -5
In the end it seems that running is a very straight forward rule and some are wondering why I even created this thread. I did so to challenge the view of the rule. As it stands, it has been proven that several people hold different interpretations and opinions. I hope that we can all find common ground. The only reason for that most of the time is that some people find it inconvenient on the player level to walk everywhere. The biggest reason we hear is if nobody is in the area why shouldn't I be able to run? Because you're playing on an RP server. It's honestly as simple as that. Is RP the first thing you think about when you log in here? Part of RP is being consistent and staying in character, not only when it suits your own ends as a player but ALL the time as much as possible staying true to who your character is. People should walk most of the time but at the same time they shouldn't be fearful that a DM is going to slap them down for running a little. Typically players are given a rather liberal amount of time to run or RP before we consider saying something. Unless the running is excessive or just seems out of place we probably will never talk to you(most people playing here have never had an interaction with a DM on running, but at the same time most players are very respectful of the rule and do a great job of abiding by it because they understand the purpose it serves in the world). Excessive running would be something along the lines of area to area to area with no break and most people will never be found guilty of this.
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Post by malclave on Jan 24, 2019 2:38:01 GMT -5
[What if we made it a rule that everyone must run, EVERYWHERE and if you don't run everywhere regardless of where you are then you are violation of the rule. This sounds stupid but entertain this thought for a few moments, think of GG, Suzail market, the Tipsy Imp, and other RP first hubs where people spend a lot of time immersing themselves, or trying to, while everyone is running around just to move. Frubo's repertoire would expand to include Yakety Sax as well as the Doom song?
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Post by DM Maleficent's Kiss on Jan 24, 2019 2:46:05 GMT -5
[What if we made it a rule that everyone must run, EVERYWHERE and if you don't run everywhere regardless of where you are then you are violation of the rule. This sounds stupid but entertain this thought for a few moments, think of GG, Suzail market, the Tipsy Imp, and other RP first hubs where people spend a lot of time immersing themselves, or trying to, while everyone is running around just to move. Frubo's repertoire would expand to include Yakety Sax as well as the Doom song? Actually his next big hit will be an epic length dirge inspired by the lyrics /7The Boss is Dead/7, titled "Now you're just a boss that I used to know"
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Post by Southpaw on Jan 24, 2019 9:47:23 GMT -5
This thread has led me to think back on actual experience on FRC, and I'm remembering that I've never had a DM give me trouble about running if I was making the slightest effort to show how my character was affected by fatigue from running or other reasons another person might slow down. At times I've emoted about getting out of breath, sweating, having shoulders turn from side to side with fatigue, face grimacing from exertion, and things like this, no one has ever done or said anything. Even when I've been on my high constitution character, if I'm emoting things about running with a long, smooth stride with deep but controlled breathing like a strong runner, I've never had a problem. I'm just now thinking of the fact that in crowded city streets, you could emote about dodging around a PC you pass, or even emote bumping into them, and dodging through the crowds. So I think it's more a matter of keeping your running in character, and not about avoiding running when they would run, no matter the reason, even if it's just to have fun or be annoying IC on purpose. The DM team's not trying to dictate to you what is an IC reason to run or find excuses to punish you. They just want you to either walk to avoid getting tired and bumping into things, or RP getting tired and dodging or bumping into things when you run.
And if it feels silly to be putting up with fatigue and dodging things on the run when your reason is what it is, maybe it's not so IC.
I have always had a degree of discomfort with this rule, but I think I just finally got it.
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Post by deadbeatbert on Jan 24, 2019 13:10:47 GMT -5
In the end it seems that running is a very straight forward rule and some are wondering why I even created this thread. I did so to challenge the view of the rule. As it stands, it has been proven that several people hold different interpretations and opinions. I hope that we can all find common ground. Being utterly pragmatic, the only interpretations and opinions that count are those of the DM team. We play by and within their rules, not the rules in a 3.0 or 3.5 book, but by the house rules they agree upon. We may agree or disagree with a rule as players, but it's black and white DM policy all the way up until it isn't. By that I mean one DM may see the rule slightly differently and make a different decision in game to another, but it still comes down to them to judge what is acceptable, not us. It can be fun to discuss this, but that's all it is - a discussion. It's the same as the PvP discussion where I was quite vocal. We can enjoy the discussion and debate semantics but the rule isn't going to change because of it.* *Yes I am sure some rules have been influenced by these discussions over the years, but it's the DMs in DM Land far away from here that have the real discussion.
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Post by edmaster44 on Jan 24, 2019 14:41:42 GMT -5
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Post by DM Valkyrie on Jan 24, 2019 15:00:29 GMT -5
Usually I run in combat and in case when I hurry... In case if I hurry, I run short distance, after walk a little bit and after run again. But last time, in most cases, I walk slowly and boring... Maybe, because old and tired. Also, I have stopped to use my horse because, as DM say, my horse is tired very much and need rest... Maybe my horse became old and I have to replace it. Or I have to sale it, because it is not useful any more. Running is necessary when it is logical. When your bus is started to run away, you run to catch it. Horses are living creatures. They aren't made for running all over the swamps, into every fight and back all over the swamps. It isn't about being old. They just aren't cars that can be driven at constant top speed. You can still use your horse, of course.
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Post by StabbingNirvana on Jan 24, 2019 16:34:30 GMT -5
I run when it's raining as a lure to DMs to complain to me. Then I'm all "it was raining, bro!" So that means I get to run 75% of the time.
Also when I don't feel like RPing but do feel like killing mobs, I'll run in short bursts. Then walk. Then run again. Then walk... Then run. But eventually at some point walk again. Sometimes maybe stand still.
But most of the time I just stand in GG for multiple day cycles just watching people chatting because that's what is what keeps the server true to life. Standing in place for multiple days.
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Post by Dobian on Jan 24, 2019 18:02:36 GMT -5
My dwarf always tumbles away from aoo's.
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Post by MTGPackFoils on Jan 24, 2019 19:34:54 GMT -5
All this discussion about running in game, and here I am trying to make sure my Expertise stays turned on while making sure I go to the mob that's attacking the squishies, and forgetting to turn "walk" off.
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Post by Animayhem on Jan 24, 2019 20:17:30 GMT -5
Usually I run in combat and in case when I hurry... In case if I hurry, I run short distance, after walk a little bit and after run again. But last time, in most cases, I walk slowly and boring... Maybe, because old and tired. Also, I have stopped to use my horse because, as DM say, my horse is tired very much and need rest... Maybe my horse became old and I have to replace it. Or I have to sale it, because it is not useful any more. Running is necessary when it is logical. When your bus is started to run away, you run to catch it. Horses are living creatures. They aren't made for running all over the swamps, into every fight and back all over the swamps. It isn't about being old. They just aren't cars that can be driven at constant top speed. You can still use your horse, of course. Marister has a horse and he usually rides it going to an from places like some times from GG to Valkurs and usually goes at a canter rather than a full gallop. He often stops to let the horse drink or graze Marister does not wear or carry heavy gear and has often rped his dislike of people taking their horses into swamps for fighting or even in fighting in the woods. Many people use horses ooc for the extra ac I think? Riding in the woods for relaxation is nice. Battle steeds are better for use on open areas which have more room to maneuver.
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Post by dazza555 on Jan 24, 2019 23:34:57 GMT -5
Usually I run in combat and in case when I hurry... In case if I hurry, I run short distance, after walk a little bit and after run again. But last time, in most cases, I walk slowly and boring... Maybe, because old and tired. Also, I have stopped to use my horse because, as DM say, my horse is tired very much and need rest... Maybe my horse became old and I have to replace it. Or I have to sale it, because it is not useful any more. Running is necessary when it is logical. When your bus is started to run away, you run to catch it. I haven't encountered the bus dungeon yet.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2019 0:21:03 GMT -5
Davice is heavily invested in ride skill and right now gains +5AC when mounted. Usually he goes slow because others are walking. When alone he'll try to make good time between towns.
Then there's that 10% of people who will gripe because they can't have a horse on their screen without getting lag. Sometimes I just feel like sending them all a $500 laptop or tower that would be good enough to solve this.
I wonder, has NWNEE made any improvement in this? Reducing this sort of lag?
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Post by Fluffy the Mad on Jan 25, 2019 0:52:52 GMT -5
Davice is heavily invested in ride skill and right now gains +5AC when mounted. Usually he goes slow because others are walking. When alone he'll try to make good time between towns. Then there's that 10% of people who will gripe because they can't have a horse on their screen without getting lag. Sometimes I just feel like sending them all a $500 laptop or tower that would be good enough to solve this. I wonder, has NWNEE made any improvement in this? Reducing this sort of lag? The computer isn't the problem with horses, it's a memory issue in the base program. It helps a little to increase your caching size, but horses are among the most inefficient creations in the game. The higher-polygon horses are about 14mb of space, and the default cache is 16mb. Even high-end machines can feel some graphical lag even after increasing the cache size to the 64mb setting. This is why we recommend using horses sparingly, particularly in large group events.
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Eldok
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Atonement is the way
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Post by Eldok on Jan 25, 2019 0:54:11 GMT -5
If you were in charge, what changes would you make (if any) to the running rule? Rule have to be much soften. If you hunt, you are in dynamic process. A lot of adrenaline is in your blood make you quick and aggressive. You will be fatigue later, but now you are fresh and active. If you harry, it is enough to slowdown twice per location for few steps to take a breath. If you are on horse, you have advantage in speed and if your horse is strong, you have advantage in stamina. You should slowdown only once per location for few steps or stay idle for few mements to take breath. --- If DM want simulate fatigue, there are ways. I seen something like this on one of servers. It force characters rest regularly and not only wizard who already used it's spells, but everyone. Everything have to be managed by game mechanic, not DM. DM have to solve issues and help players, but not spy and catch players. --- I must admit I mostly agree with this!
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Post by tingly on Jan 25, 2019 1:10:34 GMT -5
In the end it seems that running is a very straight forward rule and some are wondering why I even created this thread. I did so to challenge the view of the rule. As it stands, it has been proven that several people hold different interpretations and opinions. I hope that we can all find common ground. OK then let's get right to it. Some people may have been unclear about your goal for the thread up until now. How many have actually chimed in on your real question? I know I did. Have you? It's pretty straightforward. For everyone: If you were in charge, what changes would you make (if any) to the running rule?
I'd mostly appreciate a clear allowance for 'making the most of buffs' as an IC reason to use running in dungeons. The passage of real time very much has an effect on their duration, which has an effect on your character surviving and so on. Of course, that's an imperfect solution to a problem I'd consider as "the mechanics disincentivizing taking your time and roleplaying mid-dungeon".
The main problem I've ever seen with the rule is a matter of messaging. More than a guideline, it's a rule and I've occasionally seen even DMs shouting about it in terms of "you can get banned for this", which puts people on the defensive. Trust has to enter into it, both from the perspective of the player feeling they won't be instantly banned if they're seen running and the DMs that the spirit of the rule is being respected.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2019 7:10:47 GMT -5
Davice is heavily invested in ride skill and right now gains +5AC when mounted. Usually he goes slow because others are walking. When alone he'll try to make good time between towns. Then there's that 10% of people who will gripe because they can't have a horse on their screen without getting lag. Sometimes I just feel like sending them all a $500 laptop or tower that would be good enough to solve this. I wonder, has NWNEE made any improvement in this? Reducing this sort of lag? The computer isn't the problem with horses, it's a memory issue in the base program. It helps a little to increase your caching size, but horses are among the most inefficient creations in the game. The higher-polygon horses are about 14mb of space, and the default cache is 16mb. Even high-end machines can feel some graphical lag even after increasing the cache size to the 64mb setting. This is why we recommend using horses sparingly, particularly in large group events. Perhaps this is correct but it sure seems like only a small percent of people are affected by horse lag. Every time Davice parties with someone that he hasn't before, I ask if they have this problem, that's where I get my data from. For instance, it's very common for me to be in a group of 4 or 5 others and only one will get lag. That's why I feel that it is somehow related to individuals and not a global issue. Maybe at least some of these people could help themselves by optimizing game memory settings as you say.
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Post by malclave on Jan 25, 2019 12:10:23 GMT -5
4 hours real time is 24 hours game time. So if you log off for 8 hours your character is resting for 2 days.
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Post by hellscream123 on Jan 25, 2019 21:17:20 GMT -5
4 hours real time is 24 hours game time. So if you log off for 8 hours your character is resting for 2 days. Not really. In fact, after you reconnect, your character will be in the same state as before disconnecting. If you are injured, you will be still injured. Rebooting the server restores health and cancels diseases and curses, but does not restore spells, like rest. Sergei you are forgetting the role playing context of the server. Ever 10 "real life" minutes. Is one "cormyr life" hour. HOWEVER days on the calendar -only- progress after a dull day. It's weird. But it is how cormyr functions has a turning world. C. If you dungeon for 30 "real life minutes" your character has been fighting for 3 "cormyr" hours. Occasionally Role Play is done at a slower state to facilitate more reasonable passage of time. You cannot apply the servers structure limitations as facts upon your character. "Resets" don't exist to our characters. The server is their life and full existance 24/7 wether you are online or not.
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tirelesstracker
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Post by tirelesstracker on Jan 26, 2019 5:40:38 GMT -5
Davice is heavily invested in ride skill and right now gains +5AC when mounted. Usually he goes slow because others are walking. When alone he'll try to make good time between towns. Then there's that 10% of people who will gripe because they can't have a horse on their screen without getting lag. Sometimes I just feel like sending them all a $500 laptop or tower that would be good enough to solve this. I wonder, has NWNEE made any improvement in this? Reducing this sort of lag? I volunteer as tribute. I'll take a tower please
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Post by Southpaw on Jan 26, 2019 6:25:23 GMT -5
How quick war horse in FRC? How quick it have to became fatigue in run? Gallop can be from 15 to 65 km per hour. On the run, where the speed is 50-60km / h, horses are given a maximum distance of about 4km. If average speed is kept around 15-20 km, then the trained horses can run for hours. 20 km/h is about 1/3 of full speed for the fastest horses, by your numbers. I would say it’s not right to use run speed in the game on a horse to represent 1/3 of full speed. At 60 km/h, a horse will cover the 4 km you gave as a sprint distance in 4 minutes, and only if it’s trained to sprint a long time, which is a specific skill. So even a good long sprint horse isn’t sprinting for long. The difference for player characters is that humans sprint slower and stay closer to their best sprint for longer than horses do, and the game gives stat boost gear for PC’s so your PC can make a world record marathon runner look out of shape, but does not boost stats for horses. Horses have been used for a series of sprints with breaks, like medieval battle, but that’s not a continuous run, and knights brought multiple horses to battle so they could use each horse a shorter time before switching it out for a fresh one.
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Post by Southpaw on Jan 26, 2019 7:09:27 GMT -5
In fact, there is two part of running in game. First part is when character run. Second part is when character on horse. In this case not character run, but it's horse. Running of characters is limited by rules. Running of horse is not limited by rules, but, it looks like it is limited by its fatigue. In fact, every character in game have only one horse. If war horse in FRC run with speed 15-20 km/h, it means, I can run as minimum 2-3 hours (20-30 minutes of game time) till it became fatigue. The DND rulebooks give rules for horse movement for long distances in miles per day, not the same rules for getting tired while sprinting. If you want to know how fast your horse runs, have your PC run a certain distance and time it with a stopwatch, then time your horse, find PC time divided by horse time, and multiply by 25 km/h. Then you know.
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Post by Southpaw on Jan 26, 2019 8:45:23 GMT -5
In fact, I do not want even know how quick horse in game. I want know how long I can run on horse without be stopped by DM and what is the reason why I can be stopped. Average speed of trained human for long distabces (10-42Km) is 16 km/h. If horse in game give +50% of movement speed, its speed is 24km/h.
I can only share the experience I've had. I use a "stop and go" method in traveling and combat. In travel, I might run the horse for about a minute in real time, how ever much ground it covers, and then walk for about the same amount of time, and I'll make some emotes here and there about slowing the horse down to rest, and nudging its sides with my heels to start it running again, for role play. In battle, I pretty much only run the horse during battle, and between fights only walk. I also don't use a horse in places it doesn't make sense, like places that are too cramped with obstacles, or bad footing like lots of water or snow. I don't use the horse often, but I've had one for about seven years, and I've never had a DM say anything.
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Post by hellscream123 on Jan 26, 2019 8:53:28 GMT -5
Historically a horse was only spurred to haste during the charge. In the case of combat.
On overland travel a horse can gallop like 4X the distance of a walking person before fatigue.
However running non stop woth a horse. I.E forcing it to run without stopping. Could kill it. As you can force it on through its training.
However this is not mechanically in effect in game wothout a DM.
My advice. Give your horse rests and trot/gallop most distances without a reason otherwise. Like say, combat. An emergency message. An urgent courier ect.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2019 9:01:01 GMT -5
My advice. Give your horse rests and trot/gallop most distances without a reason otherwise. Like say, combat. An emergency message. An urgent courier ect. Or because your horse sees an apple tree and can't help itself... *Somewhere in the distance Aurel glares at Sami*
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Post by Southpaw on Jan 26, 2019 9:06:23 GMT -5
My advice. Give your horse rests and trot/gallop most distances without a reason otherwise. Like say, combat. An emergency message. An urgent courier ect. Or because your horse sees an apple tree and can't help itself... *Somewhere in the distance Aurel glares at Sami*Or because thunder just crashed, or a snake crossed its path.
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Post by Animayhem on Jan 26, 2019 12:49:34 GMT -5
Marister has a horse and he usually rides it going to an from places like some times from GG to Valkurs and usually goes at a canter rather than a full gallop. He often stops to let the horse drink or graze Marister does not wear or carry heavy gear and has often rped his dislike of people taking their horses into swamps for fighting or even in fighting in the woods. Many people use horses ooc for the extra ac I think? Riding in the woods for relaxation is nice. Battle steeds are better for use on open areas which have more room to maneuver. Maybe, I do not understand something, but it looks like Marister use horse as ponies. In fact, hunt on horse is very dynamic and very useful in team where everyone is horseback. As example, I like to hunt horseback in Hullack Forest. As described, war horse has higher stamina as all other horses. War horse is not so quick as riding horse, but it strong, applicable for traveling for long distances and dedicated for fight. I have used it as caravan's replacement and advantage in battle. If I would need horse as replacement of decorative creature, I would gave poni. Cute and weak creature. Small, slow, but estetic. Even more, maybe it is better to take one level of wizard and got pixy. Nice, cute, small creature will colored my slow and boring traveling. In fact, it will be useless in battle and even will not able to open chests or disable traps, but it will be nice. Marister does not treat his horse as a "pony" but with respect as a companion. It is a fully trained war horse. He has hunted on it but mostly on open plains. Marister himself travels in light gear so does his horse. In desert lands horses have very little armor on them, many times it is decorative barding. Desert horses are quick and also have stamina. Many nomadic tribes who have horses, when they go into battle they are not heavily armored. The heavy war horse breeds were used as medieval armor and weapons were extremely heavy so they needed a horse who could take all that weight. Hunting game like boar or deer in forest is different than"hunting" orc.
I could see maybe using a horse in battle if the opponents are also on horseback. In this setting usually opponents are riding spider, or worgs or gorgons. If someone if fully armored and geared they really do not need a horse in my opinion, which is just that.
Sergil, not all ponies are weak. Some Mongol trips use ponies, they were small,often bulky but efficient in war. I have been on very few trips where someone fought on horse back but even when they did, they knew when it would not be feasible to continue on them.
People in game who have horses have them for many reasons some just have then for status. Marister does not even like some people's wanton use of summons as well. I may not like some things occ on how people do things, but it is only a game and people have right to play how they feel.
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Post by Animayhem on Jan 26, 2019 12:53:36 GMT -5
In fact, if considering fatigue as element of reality, any character who do not rest few days, have to die. Honestly, on a server that forces you to carry around camping supplies in order to rest outdoors and then forces you to eat something to regain strength, I'm surprised that no time related rest requirement is implemented. In away it is. Unlike some servers where there is unlimited resting, here after you rest you can not rest again for a specified time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2019 13:01:25 GMT -5
I think you should be allowed to run your horse as long as you want. A very quick and easy google search yields multiple examples of people mistreating their horses to the point where they simply drop dead from exhaustion. If your character was so inclined, he or she could emote whipping or kicking their horse to keep it running. After a few in game hours of this treatment, the horse would naturally die. As long as all this is properly roleplayed, I don't see the issue.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2019 16:18:30 GMT -5
Honestly, on a server that forces you to carry around camping supplies in order to rest outdoors and then forces you to eat something to regain strength, I'm surprised that no time related rest requirement is implemented. In away it is. Unlike some servers where there is unlimited resting, here after you rest you can not rest again for a specified time. That's actually the opposite of what I meant. I meant I'm surprised that fatigue does not set in if you don't rest periodically.
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