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Post by louballic2 on Mar 21, 2018 20:37:05 GMT -5
Decided to do a price comparison, between Garrot (Greatgaunt), Bron (Valkor's roar) and Kell(Suzail) (my appriase skill 5[stats and item - no skill points] - exited and entered twice same price both times).
Item: black pearl (easy numbers but true also when i point at my more expensive equipment)
Garrot will buy for 205 Brom will buy for 180 Kill will buy for 150
Significant price difference. Seems to me Garrot is the best merchant to sell things too. Anyone have other suggestions or insight?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2018 20:50:03 GMT -5
Increase your appraise skill, and slowly but steadily Bron's and Kell's offers shall become better than Garrot's.
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Post by lucid on Mar 21, 2018 21:38:19 GMT -5
The Tradekind Brothers FTW
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Post by malclave on Mar 21, 2018 21:43:38 GMT -5
I *think* the way it works is that Bron and Kell have higher Appraise than Garrot, but potentially offer better prices. But, since they have better skill, it's harder for you to beat them to get those prices. Right now, their Appraise skills is probably beating yours by a fair amount, in effect haggling you down.
Also, just closing and reopening the merchant won't give you a new Appraise roll. You'll keep the same roll (and the same prices).
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Post by Fluffy the Mad on Mar 21, 2018 22:02:38 GMT -5
This might belong more in the Crunch, but it's a well-known mechanic so it might bear listing. Appraise is a skill roll between player and merchant based on a d10 instead of a d20, where the difference in rolls affects prices on a percentage on a 1:1 ratio up to +/-30%. The roll is persistent until either the character's appraise scores improves or the NPC is replaced. Since the whole process is script-based, it can also be modified for any given server and still interacts with a merchant's markup/markdown prices. A given merchant can also have a maximum price they pay for any given item.
Keep in mind that forcing rerolls on a merchant's appraise roll is highly frowned upon.
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Post by Warlord on Mar 21, 2018 22:08:01 GMT -5
Gold matters like, zero in the end game.
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Post by Lady Frost on Mar 21, 2018 22:09:52 GMT -5
I *think* the way it works is that Bron and Kell have higher Appraise than Garrot, but potentially offer better prices. But, since they have better skill, it's harder for you to beat them to get those prices. Right now, their Appraise skills is probably beating yours by a fair amount, in effect haggling you down. Also, just closing and reopening the merchant won't give you a new Appraise roll. You'll keep the same roll (and the same prices). This is how it works, yes.
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Post by malclave on Mar 21, 2018 22:45:26 GMT -5
Gold matters like, zero in the end game. Which I suppose is nice for characters in the end game... not all of us are there, and gold certainly does matter at lower levels.
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Post by Warlord on Mar 21, 2018 23:04:50 GMT -5
Gold matters like, zero in the end game. Which I suppose is nice for characters in the end game... not all of us are there, and gold certainly does matter at lower levels. Nah
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Post by Munroe on Mar 22, 2018 8:49:38 GMT -5
I *think* the way it works is that Bron and Kell have higher Appraise than Garrot, but potentially offer better prices. But, since they have better skill, it's harder for you to beat them to get those prices. Right now, their Appraise skills is probably beating yours by a fair amount, in effect haggling you down. Also, just closing and reopening the merchant won't give you a new Appraise roll. You'll keep the same roll (and the same prices). This is how it works, yes. My understanding of the merchants on FRC is that they were changed to actually use a d20 roll instead of a d10 on Appraise checks, to bring Appraise in line with the rest of the d20-based system. I believe this was done while Kalbaern was still in charge of building/scripting. However, it may be something that was planned and never implemented. That happens sometimes. I think it may have actually gone in though. But yes, Garrot has less ranks in Appraise than other merchants, and a higher base pay-out than most as well, but also a lower maximum pay-out. So he's more beneficial for lower Appraise characters (such as low level characters), but less beneficial overall to parties that have a high appraise character to trade for them. For the very dedicated seller, there are some limited merchants that pay better for only one or two types of item if a character's appraise is high enough and the player is willing to hunt them out. And there's one merchant that doesn't use Appraise, but a different skill. That merchant's pay-outs don't seem to make it worth the visit anyway though. (Your mileage may vary.) I think that one still needs some work.
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Post by Munroe on Mar 22, 2018 8:55:21 GMT -5
Which I suppose is nice for characters in the end game... not all of us are there, and gold certainly does matter at lower levels. Nah I've been playing on FRC for 13 years and will never be near the "end game." I still need more gold on every character I've ever started. The less a character adventures, the more gold matters to the character. None of my characters is fully equipped, though one is close. Not surprisingly, it's the one that adventures the most and also solos the most.
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Post by nemusator on Mar 22, 2018 12:26:04 GMT -5
Just pimp your appraise skill. There are useful items in game that can help you as well. When I am not satisfied with one merchant's offer, I simply go to another one. Fluffy The Mad said: Keep in mind that forcing re-rolls on a merchant's appraise roll is highly frowned upon. You might even consider chatting with merchant (not pretending you are getting response form him, simply talking about something), you know get him relaxed, act friendly, might help with prices
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Post by Fluffy the Mad on Mar 22, 2018 15:07:17 GMT -5
Just pimp your appraise skill. There are useful items in game that can help you as well. When I am not satisfied with one merchant's offer, I simply go to another one. Fluffy The Mad said: Keep in mind that forcing re-rolls on a merchant's appraise roll is highly frowned upon. You might even consider chatting with merchant (not pretending you are getting response form him, simply talking about something), you know get him relaxed, act friendly, might help with prices You really shouldn't admit to cheating. When I said 'frowned upon,' perhaps I should have said 'strictly against the rules.' My understanding of the merchants on FRC is that they were changed to actually use a d20 roll instead of a d10 on Appraise checks, to bring Appraise in line with the rest of the d20-based system. I believe this was done while Kalbaern was still in charge of building/scripting. However, it may be something that was planned and never implemented. That happens sometimes. I think it may have actually gone in though. You might have been referring to this thread: frc.proboards.com/thread/18380/dm-skill-appraise-capsI don't know if that was implemented, either, but the way it's worded implies that Kal thought it was the default behavior to use a d20.
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Post by Warlord on Mar 22, 2018 16:37:01 GMT -5
I've been playing on FRC for 13 years and will never be near the "end game." I still need more gold on every character I've ever started. The less a character adventures, the more gold matters to the character. None of my characters is fully equipped, though one is close. Not surprisingly, it's the one that adventures the most and also solos the most. Rich or poor, my PC's appreciate gold! The "end game" was not .. so literal. Coin helps, but group-up and RP, then all is made classy.
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Post by nemusator on Mar 22, 2018 16:49:47 GMT -5
You really shouldn't admit to cheating. When I said 'frowned upon,' perhaps I should have said 'strictly against the rules.' I treat every NPC as a living breathing character. Otherwise it would be metagaming. So, when I go to visit Kell, I'm like: *Heya Kell, doing well? I would like to see your wares." Than I click on him. If I do not like the offer, I go to the next merchant. I ask Adamas about his sons and alike... I have my own perception of NPC's i talk to. So, I go to a merchant, greet them, trade with them or not. Treating NPC's with respect is in the spirit of FRC and I'm 100% sure my above mentioned actions are completely by the rules. Maybe next time, before accusing someone, you would like to make sure that you have read the post with attention and understood the point one was trying to make. My point was that visiting a merchant can be a fun experience, advice to change the merchant if prices are not good, and to invest into appraise. I also salute blades, and react to dialogs NPC's give me. Like I laugh when A.A. goes like: *And than I hit him with a frying pan, *laughter*. Besides, every player should read the rules, everything is clearly explained there and even if knowing them all by letter, occasionally re-read them. It is all in there. You probably presumed I was talking about something else, some way to cheat or something, but a reminder about rules is always a good thing, so thanks for emphasizing fair play and have a nice day.
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Post by Fluffy the Mad on Mar 22, 2018 17:33:01 GMT -5
I'll go ahead and explain something about context, then. When you reply to a post with a quote, particularly a very specific section of post, it can be assumed that your following reply is based directly on that quoted section. If you mean otherwise, it would be best to either avoiding quoting in such detail, or prefacing your text with a note that you're adding to something, rather than replying to it directly. For example: I also salute blades, and react to dialogs NPC's give me. Like I laugh when A.A. goes like: *And than I hit him with a frying pan, *laughter*. I agree with such a statement, in addition...The way the prior reply was worded highly implied that speaking to an NPC in place of visiting others would be an acceptable way to 'get higher prices,' as in rerolling, which would be against stated rules.
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Post by malclave on Mar 22, 2018 17:41:16 GMT -5
The way the prior reply was worded highly implied that speaking to an NPC in place of visiting others would be an acceptable way to 'get higher prices,' as in rerolling, which would be against stated rules. I guess that's one interpretation, but I don't know about "highly implied". I thought he meant speaking with a merchant in case a DM is watching and wants to RP haggling, and getting a better deal that way.
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Post by Fluffy the Mad on Mar 22, 2018 17:55:20 GMT -5
I guess that's one interpretation, but I don't know about "highly implied". I thought he meant speaking with a merchant in case a DM is watching and wants to RP haggling, and getting a better deal that way. I'm not sure what you mean by that. I'm unsure there's a DM tool to change an appraise roll since it's scripted, though I suppose one could either buff the player's Int and allow them to make another, or possess the NPC and offer a unique item for sale, or something. To be honest, I haven't seen a single DM do that in thirteen years of playing this game on PWs. I don't think I've ever seen someone give out XP for haggling, either, which is a shame- I enjoy doing so on merchant characters.
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Post by nemusator on Mar 22, 2018 18:20:14 GMT -5
I will explain myself. I always feel that NPC merchants give me bad/good prices depending on their current mood, and their reaction to my talk with them. Of course, this doesn't have to do anything with game mechanics, it is my imagination. Was hoping that wink emote would clarify all the dilemmas but it failed me... Again... *scolds wink emote* See ya IG
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Post by malclave on Mar 22, 2018 20:06:59 GMT -5
I guess that's one interpretation, but I don't know about "highly implied". I thought he meant speaking with a merchant in case a DM is watching and wants to RP haggling, and getting a better deal that way. I'm not sure what you mean by that. I'm unsure there's a DM tool to change an appraise roll since it's scripted, though I suppose one could either buff the player's Int and allow them to make another, or possess the NPC and offer a unique item for sale, or something. To be honest, I haven't seen a single DM do that in thirteen years of playing this game on PWs. I don't think I've ever seen someone give out XP for haggling, either, which is a shame- I enjoy doing so on merchant characters. I guess I mean closer to your latter example... a DM could possess the merchant and haggle for one or two specific items being sold (bypassing the normal opposed Appraise route), RP the trading session and then give some extra gold afterwards the way they award xp, or even have the merchant "throw in" something to "sweeten the deal"... like some healing kits.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2018 21:57:32 GMT -5
I've been playing on FRC for 13 years and will never be near the "end game." I still need more gold on every character I've ever started. The less a character adventures, the more gold matters to the character. None of my characters is fully equipped, though one is close. Not surprisingly, it's the one that adventures the most and also solos the most. Rich or poor, my PC's appreciate gold! The "end game" was not .. so literal. Coin helps, but group-up and RP, then all is made classy. Agreed In the end, gold and levels are for unlocking more content until you can roam Cormyr, the Underdark and beyond confidently. In other words, that golden stage (pun intented!) where and when the thrill of the adventure, the RP and more is what drives your OC and your character's IC actions. You care more about who is in your group not because of their build, survivality or plain luck, but because they are fun and...ok blink I miss ya and Kalia
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Post by louballic2 on Mar 23, 2018 6:24:58 GMT -5
Thank you all for valuable input. Skill points are in high demand - - putting in appraise is not going to happen. That is just my view i always want more skills than i have skill points for.
For MY POINT of view is biased by my experiences - - I am relatively new to FRC - - but take stealth for example; i don't need to stealth "creatures" i can beat. i need to stealth creatures i can't - - - Which is the exact opposite of what i see in NWN engine (not talking of FRC don't know it that well - - I only know of one server [now defunct], where you could stealth creatures that would cream you) And of course all DM's are generally against what you would do, while stealthed. IN fact I read articles about the difficulty with rogues - -- - If you include stuff that only they can do - its like penalizing other players and if you don't include traps and locks, rogues complain there is nothing for their class to do. Seems to me a hard minefield for the DM's to tread/balance.
I digress - spending skill points in appraise has never seemed worthwhile to ME - even here in FRC - spare points going into persuade or bluff for RP purposes seems more fun. And practical? Well there is at least one quest where you can get 100gp more by passing a persuade check (hidden i must admit - my character with persuade gets the extra and my character without does not).
But i do like the Idea of some characters - being the Merchant Prince of their party - and doing the haggling. For a fee even? Reminds me of that post about letting others shine.
EDIT: REVISION; Persuade is an important skill to have. My character without it is going to have to find the skillpoints (by foregoing other skills) to take it.
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