|
Post by Razgriz on Aug 8, 2017 12:53:51 GMT -5
I wonder if some dogmas in the Forgotten Realms could be oxymorons. For instance, I find Torm's "Bring painful, quick death to traitors" somewhat strange. You can absolutely kill someone quick and painfully. I won't go into details because well...this is supposed to be a non-R rating environment. Yeah, not arguing the possibility of such. It is more the fact that a LG deity, patron of paladins even, would allow and maybe even encourage it if it is taken in the literal sense.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2017 12:55:58 GMT -5
Don't forget that the god of all paladins is also notably encouraging nonviolent and nondeath inducing steps prior to that click and kill point.
lol, at that final stage it's more like, "Well, told ya so...boop"
|
|
|
Post by smacrasmacrasmacra on Aug 8, 2017 13:10:04 GMT -5
If you could roar a challenge or toss a stone...maybe even roll the head of one of their allies at the foes, then we would. But...we can't. So...we shoot them and wave and then kick their butts. The game's got enough limitations on creative RP. I don't mind chucking an axe or sling-stone at the beasties when I wanna get their attention. And any of the cowards who sit up on rocks out of reach? Yer damned right that I'm shooting them. How'd they get up there anyway? *PLOT!* Oh, well I'll just reeeeeach up their on my tip-toes, or club at the stalactites to drop them on them, or shake their bridge or tree until they fall. All in the IG operation of "shoot stuff."
|
|
|
Post by malclave on Aug 8, 2017 14:24:18 GMT -5
You can absolutely kill someone quick and painfully. I won't go into details because well...this is supposed to be a non-R rating environment. Yeah, not arguing the possibility of such. It is more the fact that a LG deity, patron of paladins even, would allow and maybe even encourage it if it is taken in the literal sense. Always bothered me, too... I can understand the god of Duty despising traitors, but the emphasis on "painful" seems excessive since he's also god of Paladins. Everyone expects the Tormite Inquisition!
|
|
|
Post by Pedantry INC on Aug 8, 2017 19:14:50 GMT -5
Soz Fenix but not really here to play at pedantry. Ironic, no? I think the point is, yea some things in nature bite and or sting stuff and it makes 'em sick, as a natural biological part of what them nasties.. snakies, spiders, jellifishies, whateveries got. So mimicing that might not be an unheard of idea for people that venerate various aspects of predation. That's all. And again comes down to a players interpretation of the faith and what is within the limits of justified method. Tbh more malarites should venerate sharks tho, or would that be out of their range, what with them being oceanic thingies? Shame on umberlee for having the oldschool predators in her domain, no? I want a malarite with self installed extra rows of teeth. I'mma call him Chomper. Anyways Tal, most important, flesh out the character the way you feel suits him, and most of all, -have fun-. Roleplay is roleplay, not everyone gunna agree, or understand what you're trying to represent, and may even try to throw dictionaries, studies, or lore quotes at ya. In the end it's your char, take it where you wanna do. The end ~
|
|
|
Post by DOT on Aug 8, 2017 19:43:54 GMT -5
Soz Fenix but not really here to play at pedantry. Ironic, no? I think the point is, yea some things in nature bite and or sting stuff and it makes 'em sick, as a natural biological part of what them nasties.. snakies, spiders, jellifishies, whateveries got. So mimicing that might not be an unheard of idea for people that venerate various aspects of predation. That's all. And again comes down to a players interpretation of the faith and what is within the limits of justified method. Tbh more malarites should venerate sharks tho, or would that be out of their range, what with them being oceanic thingies? Shame on umberlee for having the oldschool predators in her domain, no? I want a malarite with self installed extra rows of teeth. I'mma call him Chomper. Anyways Tal, most important, flesh out the character the way you feel suits him, and most of all, -have fun-. Roleplay is roleplay, not everyone gunna agree, or understand what you're trying to represent, and may even try to throw dictionaries, studies, or lore quotes at ya. In the end it's your char, take it where you wanna do. The end ~ Grazie! I am having so much fun with this, and definitely appreciate the input so far. He's developing organically at the moment. I respect what others have done with their malarites, even if there might be disagreements, but I am loving the limitations that I can implement on the character.
|
|
|
Post by erratic1 on Aug 9, 2017 10:37:41 GMT -5
The dogma of Malar is really rather clear, and clever interpretations to twist the meaning of this is, and I'll say it again, Sophistry. I'm not going to argue against what you want to do as a player with your own character, however. Point is, though, if a DM takes exception to this and you suddenly lose abilities/spells if your character has them, then you really have no argument against such happening.
Also in regards to venom/poison. There's a well known Malar priest named Garnos Saernclaws. He said this, specifically about the hunt:
"The hunt must be clean. If disease or affliction is visited on hunters by a beast, clergy of Malar must do all they can to root out and exterminate the taint, that bloodlines and beasts in the wild will remain always strong." Now I'm not sure this directly ties into weapons coated with poisions, but it shows that they do not suffer to poison out sources of water or nests, lairs etc, as Pedantry stated above.
|
|
|
Post by StabbingNirvana on Aug 9, 2017 11:55:14 GMT -5
Now I'm no expert in Malar, but I think Erratic is right.
Malar's faith is about brutally hunting creatures, making them hurt, and revelling in the bloodlust that comes with it. It's a show a strength and power which is also why it says to do it in a settled area if possible. It's as much about making people fear you as it is about killing something in a completely inhumane and ruthless manner.
Using a bow to weaken your foe then get the kill shot in melee to get the blood on your hands, I feel, is a falsely interpreted way to go about it. Same with poisons, which also make it not so much a show of strength or force. As evil as Malar is, it sounds as though there's a bit of pride taken in having as fair a fight as possible in a test of strength.
It's all about being Savage and Vicious. Here's some tips.
|
|
|
Post by smacrasmacrasmacra on Aug 9, 2017 12:17:39 GMT -5
Yeah, don't weaken them and all that--that'd be against the spirit in the extreme. I just wanna throw crap at stuff to represent some kind of challenge. I keep a few mundane darts on Warrick to represent that. Toss one, holler, beat all the bottoms. Also, it's just what you have to do to deal with foes that are spawned on inaccessible ledges--one of those bits of weirdness you just deal with cuz of the game engine, I guess.
|
|
|
Post by FlyingMidget on Aug 9, 2017 12:36:40 GMT -5
I wanted to remind the folks above, this thread is about playing a non-divine caster of Malar a wizard at that !, it's far easier to play loosely with a deities dogma if you are playing a lay follower or someone that just offers up lip service rather then a divine gifted caster like Paladin, Druid, Cleric (even if those all get insane amounts of leeway here anyway). This is enough for him to survive both on the field and in the political sphere. Atrox is a ranger of Malar with keen senses, and a conjuring focused wizard (unfortunately no mechanical benefit of actually taking the school, unlike animal domain of clerics); his primary focus would be the summoning of beasts and such and dabble with portal theory. granted he's not going to be as casting effective as your standard recommended pure wizard, but the skills available and ability points just made sense (start 16 int and distributed from there). the story just opens up with increase depth and has been unrolling itself with minimal effort on my part. I also wanted to note to Tal that conjuration is actually one of the better schools to focus in NWN as you get a reasonable selection of spells to choose from that benefit from such (unlike abjurations 2 below average spells, illusionists 3 spells generally below average though colour spray is awesome, divination 1 useless spell, transmutations 2 spells though transmutations two spells are exceptionally good which helps) The following is a list of spells you'll see benefit out of taking spell focus/greater SF conjuration. - Grease is an often over looked amazing spell, Speed reduction, Knockdown per round, can be used on a horde of enemies at a bottleneck point (Even better with more AoE spells).
- Web is an amazing spell, particularly as it's both speed reduction and a really good debuff in entanglement, -2ab, -2 dex, held in place, flatfooted (free sneak attacks) -3 reflex (-2 and another point off from lowered dex make it good before a reflex save based spell). (Even better with more AoE spells)
- Flame Arrow, it's one of only two spells that are worth taking epic CL's for as it's one of only two offensive spells that scale (and it can scale as high as an unnerfed IGMS) it's single target, packs a punch particularly when empowered with a few caster levels to back it up and can be used effectively to weaken strong opponents.
- Acid Breath, acid damage is almost ways good damage, the cone AoE makes it with some practice easy enough to avoid targetting allies with proper positioning.
- Stinking Cloud, your friends might love or hate you for this for the smell, but it's a veeery effective spell, persistent AoE, save per round vs daze where mind immunity prevents your allies from being effected. (Even better with more AoE spells)
- Evards Black Tentacles, Pretty good AoE, even better if you have freedom and ethereal visage up as you become immune to the paralyse and the damage of it letting you run around in it while foes get hit. Not so great beyond level 24 though as a High STR and/or BAB makes foes ignore it as they beat all the grapple checks.
- Lesser, Normal, Greater Planar Binding, amazing summon spells for their level, even better as they have a utility use in disabling a strong outsiders (normal also gets a +2 dc while greater gets a +5 dc).
- Acid fog technically gets a better DC, but it's not a good spell regardless
- Cloudkill technically gets a better DC, but it's not a good spell regardless
Over all that's a pretty decent list, it's not the big schools which are necromancy, enchantment or evocation, but it's a fairly good school. FM.
|
|
|
Post by malclave on Aug 9, 2017 13:43:02 GMT -5
I wanted to remind the folks above, this thread is about playing a non-divine caster of Malar a wizard at that !, it's far easier to play loosely with a deities dogma if you are playing a lay follower or someone that just offers up lip service rather then a divine gifted caster like Paladin, Druid, Cleric (even if those all get insane amounts of leeway here anyway). True, only a major transgression would likely cause problems for someone not receiving divine spells or bonuses... killing an orc here and there with a Flame Arrow shouldn't be a problem. Still, arguing a fantasy world's theology can be fun. I was wondering about the ranged weapon disagreement (even if it does apply only to clergy) so I went back to older materials. Though it's no longer binding, in 2nd Edition Malar's Specialty Priests were forbidden from using ranged weapons. From that I gather that avoiding refusing to use missile weapons is more than just a preference. But how serious is it? Malar's portfolio includes hunting, after all, and for humanoids hunting often involves the bow. I'd probably call it a minor transgression even for clergy, as long as it's not the character's main weapon. Still, a character who seeks to be a paragon of the Beastlord's virtues would likely not use one, preferring to hunt with melee weapons. Or if possible, shapeshifted into something else. I suppose to a Malarite, the only thing better than killing with your hands is killing with your teeth... it's all about the savagery. And to the Conjurer who started the thread... keep on summoning. Spreading Malar's joy to other creatures by bringing them into a hunt is a noble calling.
|
|
|
Post by Calliope on Aug 9, 2017 17:10:16 GMT -5
Curious on peoples opinions/interpretation of the line in the dogma that says, "Taste the blood of all those you slay".
I've always takin it literal and ate whatever I killed be it human, orc, or deer. It's impractical to taste the blood this way of every orc I kill when there's 100+ orcs in a single dungeon so I usually just feasted on a few here or there or periodically lick the blood off my blade.
I know some people take it figuratively and view tasting their blood as simply spilling their blood up close and personal so you can smell it in the air, feel it on your skin, and make it a part of your fight.
What do you guys think?
<3 -Calliope
|
|
|
Post by Orchid on Aug 9, 2017 23:39:56 GMT -5
Curious on peoples opinions/interpretation of the line in the dogma that says, "Taste the blood of all those you slay". I've always takin it literal and ate whatever I killed be it human, orc, or deer. It's impractical to taste the blood this way of every orc I kill when there's 100+ orcs in a single dungeon so I usually just feasted on a few here or there or periodically lick the blood off my blade. I know some people take it figuratively and view tasting their blood as simply spilling their blood up close and personal so you can smell it in the air, feel it on your skin, and make it a part of your fight. What do you guys think? <3 -Calliope Me personally, I say consume the blood, because why not? If you're gonna do a Malarite in my opinion, commit to it. I've always malarites as hot temperedsavage battlers who revel in besting and consuming their essence personally.
|
|
|
Post by DOT on Aug 10, 2017 22:00:33 GMT -5
that's really gotta mess with your stomach im guessing
|
|
|
Post by malclave on Aug 10, 2017 22:51:51 GMT -5
Me personally, I say consume the blood, because why not? If you're gonna do a Malarite in my opinion, commit to it. I've always malarites as hot temperedsavage battlers who revel in besting and consuming their essence personally. WOLVERINES!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 5:53:38 GMT -5
that's really gotta mess with your stomach im guessing If you're tasting/drinking blood, then you'd run the chance of all the usual transmittable FR diseases and anything else special to that creature (or their race) you're drinking. Same for if you're consuming/eating animals, but at least eating animals is commonly acceptable to various societies and the gods. (Unless you're a vegetarian Malarite?! That'd be a weirder quirk) I just hope you at least cooked and prepared the meat first before eating. But if you're eating something else then you might be in for a world of hurt, soul and mind corruption, the most horrible of deaths, and utter insanity and vile addictions. In 3.5 FR cannibalism is defined as eating any creature of your own kind, but can also be defined as eating other intelligent creatures for pleasure/or perverse reasoning. Cannibalism: Cannibals are creatures that eat others of their own kind. In the broader sense, cannibals may be defined as creatures that eat other intelligent creatures for whatever perverted pleasure they gain from it. Many creatures do this—dragons eat humans and other intelligent creatures all the time—but usually they gain no more pleasure (and definitely less sustenance) from a human than they do from a cow. Cannibals gain pleasure, and in some cases power (see the absorb mind and absorb strength spells), from eating others. Often cannibals consume foes that they have defeated in battle, but sometimes they simply murder their meals. Diseases, many of which involve mental disorders, may be transmitted through cannibalism. Eating particularly foul creatures, such as trolls or fiends, can be very dangerous (see the blue guts disease). If your character is someone who is consuming orcs, goblins, trolls, dragons, etc then you might just be a cannibal. I can't actually think of any instance where eating intelligent creatures wouldn't make you a cannibal outside of someone else force-feeding or misleading you into eating it—at least, everyone I've ever roleplayed with whose been aware of FR's cannibalism rules errs on the safe side of that same reasoning. You wouldn't want to accidentally make your character a cannibal or be committing a vile act! Some of the vile diseases from the book... keep in mind there's still all the usual diseases you can catch or be transmitted from what you eat. Blue Guts: DC 14; 1d3 days incubation; 1d4 Str damage
This disease comes from eating the flesh of particularly disgusting creatures such as otyughs, gibbering mouthers, and gray oozes. It results in a bluish complexion, particularly around the creature's intestines (hence the name). Many (but not all) predatory magical beasts, aberrations, and other creatures are immune to this disease, but no humanoids are. Melting Fury:DC 16; 1d6 days incubation; 1d4 Str, 1d4 Dex, 1d4 Con damageCaught by characters who handle undead flesh, this disease is as horrific to watch as it is to contract. The victim's flesh slowly liquefies and "melts" off his body until he is dead. Soul Rot:DC 23; 1d8 days incubation; 1d6 Wis, 1d6 Cha damageCreatures that eat the flesh of an evil outsider can contract this horrible malady. Soul rot eats at the victim's mind and soul until she dies a horrible, agonizing death full of pain and misery.
|
|
|
Post by Orchid on Aug 11, 2017 7:11:33 GMT -5
that's really gotta mess with your stomach im guessing If you're tasting/drinking blood, then you'd run the chance of all the usual transmittable FR diseases and anything else special to that creature (or their race) you're drinking. Same for if you're consuming/eating animals, but at least eating animals is commonly acceptable to various societies and the gods. (Unless you're a vegetarian Malarite?! That'd be a weirder quirk) I just hope you at least cooked and prepared the meat first before eating. But if you're eating something else then you might be in for a world of hurt, soul and mind corruption, the most horrible of deaths, and utter insanity and vile addictions. In 3.5 FR cannibalism is defined as eating any creature of your own kind, but can also be defined as eating other intelligent creatures for pleasure/or perverse reasoning. Cannibalism: Cannibals are creatures that eat others of their own kind. In the broader sense, cannibals may be defined as creatures that eat other intelligent creatures for whatever perverted pleasure they gain from it. Many creatures do this—dragons eat humans and other intelligent creatures all the time—but usually they gain no more pleasure (and definitely less sustenance) from a human than they do from a cow. Cannibals gain pleasure, and in some cases power (see the absorb mind and absorb strength spells), from eating others. Often cannibals consume foes that they have defeated in battle, but sometimes they simply murder their meals. Diseases, many of which involve mental disorders, may be transmitted through cannibalism. Eating particularly foul creatures, such as trolls or fiends, can be very dangerous (see the blue guts disease). If your character is someone who is consuming orcs, goblins, trolls, dragons, etc then you might just be a cannibal. I can't actually think of any instance where eating intelligent creatures wouldn't make you a cannibal outside of someone else force-feeding or misleading you into eating it—at least, everyone I've ever roleplayed with whose been aware of FR's cannibalism rules errs on the safe side of that same reasoning. You wouldn't want to accidentally make your character a cannibal or be committing a vile act! Some of the vile diseases from the book... keep in mind there's still all the usual diseases you can catch or be transmitted from what you eat. Blue Guts: DC 14; 1d3 days incubation; 1d4 Str damage
This disease comes from eating the flesh of particularly disgusting creatures such as otyughs, gibbering mouthers, and gray oozes. It results in a bluish complexion, particularly around the creature's intestines (hence the name). Many (but not all) predatory magical beasts, aberrations, and other creatures are immune to this disease, but no humanoids are. Melting Fury:DC 16; 1d6 days incubation; 1d4 Str, 1d4 Dex, 1d4 Con damageCaught by characters who handle undead flesh, this disease is as horrific to watch as it is to contract. The victim's flesh slowly liquefies and "melts" off his body until he is dead. Soul Rot:DC 23; 1d8 days incubation; 1d6 Wis, 1d6 Cha damageCreatures that eat the flesh of an evil outsider can contract this horrible malady. Soul rot eats at the victim's mind and soul until she dies a horrible, agonizing death full of pain and misery. Considering she only really seems to eat orcs, and beasts, possibly giants and/or humans, none of those apply...(who the heck eats oozes o.O?) Also...the cannibalism thing, extended opinion-based definition or not isn't listed as a crime anywhere I can see in game or on forums...so yea.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 11:58:37 GMT -5
Considering she only really seems to eat orcs, and beasts, possibly giants and/or humans, none of those apply...(who the heck eats oozes o.O?) Also...the cannibalism thing, extended opinion-based definition or not isn't listed as a crime anywhere I can see in game or on forums...so yea. I'm not referencing any other player character, and I prefer not to as everyone's roleplay is their own. I like seeing what others bring to the table with their own unique stories and only offer my own notions to fuel further ideas. My post is just musing on Tal's statement with the possibilities and creativity that can spawn from consuming other creatures. Mindless creatures have an Int score of 0, animals have an Int of 1 or 2, and creatures with "humanlike intelligence" have a score of at least 3, according to the PHB. EG. Zombies, golems, and oozes have an average Int of 0. Purple worms, camels: 1. Dogs, horses, tigers, cats: 2. Basilisks: 3. Displacer beasts, griffons, Otyughs: 4-5. Trolls: 6-7. Orcs: 8. Kobolds: 10. Humans and bugbears: 10-11. Beholders, succubi: 16-17. Mind flayers, death slaads: 18-19 And great wyrms upwards of 33. I can't remember if there's any definitive Int score for something to be "intelligent" or if 3 is the base line for that consideration, but that gives an idea of various typical creatures averages. Much of pen-and-paper DND fun comes from all the interpretations of source rules and lore you can come up with and get a DM to allow, such as proposing casting Light on an enemy's face to blind them, and the way cannibalism is written leaves some room for interpretation which is why I only presented my statements as hypotheses and open-ended possibilities. FRC is more grounded and established with over a decade of set precedents, and the inherit differences of FRC being a large endless worldspace shared by hundreds and not a short session-by-session table campaign with a handful of people only heightens the need for some shared ground in how things work. It's one of the reasons for the lore boards and DM Q&A forum, I'd think; to give unified inspiration or clarified workings of the world for roleplaying on. Citing lesser known source rules or lore is only done by me in the interest of promoting that inspiration and knowledge so that more ideas and stories in roleplay can be spawned. For instance, most of Nyssa's RDD RP is drawn from the RDDs before her or inspired by the lore and set rules from the sourcebooks for disciples or true dragons; notably the Draconomicon for things such as her appearance, lore of her wings and "glowing" eyes/darkvision, how her breath and blood work through her draconis fundamentum, etc. I even have most of her belongings packed into Bags of Holding to keep her weight low to further support her roleplayed ability to fly to keep in accordance with FR's rules on flight. Diseases can be transmitted through consumption of the infected, some can even be transmitted through touch or proximity. Some diseases themselves can even be spawned from "evil emotions", which I find weird and a little amusing. The roleplay potentials are great though! Is depression a disease in FR? (I have no idea really, I'm being silly, but there is a disease called Festering Anger which is contracted through intense fury and hatred over a long period of time.)One of my alts is a Monk of the Long Death and worshiper of Talona. Whilst they probably wouldn't eat an ooze unless someone was calling jam, jelly! They might just play with substances from it in experiments with diseases and new poisons. It's groundwork to pull from to create new ideas. At some point I may have them study a group of creatures in a dungeon under the guise for that adventure of those NPCs potentially being diseased and utilized for her studies. And no, hehe. Cannibalism doesn't appear to be explicitly outlawed by FRC's Cormyr laws. But imagine the fun you could have if you walked into Gaunt to bite and attempt to eat someones arm? I imagine that'd be assault, or murder if you killed the victim. Maybe you could even get charged with disturbing the peace if you drove a Displacer Beast into the town square to kill and then eat if you didn't stop or leave if a guard asked you to. There's so many ideas that can be played off from with some creativity.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 12:10:29 GMT -5
Malarite summons... This gives me an idea! I don't know if Malar has a faith shop on the server, and with the varied interpretations of Malarite behavior in regards to ranged weapons and poisons I'm not sure if it would make complete sense to the faith, but having some ranged weapons/ammunination in a shop with damage penalties and on-hit: slow, wounding, etc properties I imagine could be utilized by someone during a hunt, or when they want to confine their prey to the kill site for the final battle.
|
|
|
Post by Calliope on Aug 11, 2017 15:21:38 GMT -5
What what? Kill a displacer beast in town you say!? ^_^ frc.proboards.com/thread/27197/oh-crazy-malaritesAlso, they don't have any Malar shop that I know of. Ironically though in Suzial the shrine to Malar is next door to an archery shop XD. It'd be really great if the build team could put an NPC in the Malar shrine. A priest that sold your usual healing stuff and then a few Malar items. The same could be said of other faiths too like the Sharessan shrine. <3 -Calliope
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 15:56:56 GMT -5
LOL, awesome The same could be said of other faiths too like the Sharessan shrine. Sharess kind-of does have a faith shop, they share one with Lliira and Sune worshipers in the Sunite temple, but I get what you mean. They don't have a shrine attendant other than all those cats, and some other faiths have no attendants or shops at all.
|
|
|
Post by DOT on Aug 11, 2017 22:14:18 GMT -5
What what? Kill a displacer beast in town you say!? ^_^ frc.proboards.com/thread/27197/oh-crazy-malaritesAlso, they don't have any Malar shop that I know of. Ironically though in Suzial the shrine to Malar is next door to an archery shop XD. It'd be really great if the build team could put an NPC in the Malar shrine. A priest that sold your usual healing stuff and then a few Malar items. The same could be said of other faiths too like the Sharessan shrine. <3 -Calliope I think the npc was excluded on request when that shrine went in to give players more sway. I can't confirm which but I'm assuming these were implemented via ig player effort
|
|
|
Post by DOT on Feb 19, 2022 7:43:17 GMT -5
*five years later, and Tal/Dot roles a ranger/cleric/wizard who foes used ranged weapons… now to incorporate the whole eating does bit* nomnomnom
|
|