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Post by Rane on Jul 5, 2016 23:55:38 GMT -5
lol, lets's just move on from this one.
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Post by DOT on Jul 23, 2016 13:59:25 GMT -5
lets just remind ourselves that tolerating evil faiths for -reasons- is not the same as tolerating representatives of evil faiths who are essentially mass murdering criminals. Ahmed would agree.... ';_;'
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Post by smacrasmacrasmacra on Jul 23, 2016 20:39:58 GMT -5
You stand accused of something you absolutely did not do, the consequences of which are dire to a great many people should you go down for it. You got a choice of nice, fair-play attorney, or a Banite hot-shot gunslinger lawyer and her staff of like-minded horrible clerks.
I rest my case.
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Post by Calliope on Jun 4, 2017 17:14:40 GMT -5
*Bump*
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Post by DOT on Aug 7, 2017 8:36:14 GMT -5
This was a fantastic read. Thankyou!
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Post by Lady Frost on Feb 26, 2019 12:54:11 GMT -5
trausonBased on your post in the After Execution Thread ( frc.proboards.com/post/323249/thread) I think you should read the original post in this thread. It talks about why evil faiths are tolerated in places like Cormyr.
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trauson
New Member
Idk.... Alive?
Posts: 95
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Post by trauson on Feb 26, 2019 17:49:02 GMT -5
trauson Based on your post in the After Execution Thread ( frc.proboards.com/post/323249/thread) I think you should read the original post in this thread. It talks about why evil faiths are tolerated in places like Cormyr. Thank you for the tag , i already did long ago , i still do not support this kind of "mentality" But if its the canon it is the canon. Alrought we have seen that there are indeed Malarites doing questionable things around the kingdom.
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abby
Old School
Posts: 323
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Post by abby on Feb 26, 2019 18:14:40 GMT -5
If you didn't have this kind of mentality, there would be no villains on the server. If there are no villains, there'd be no conflicts or PvP. That would be very boring. We must have valid RP reasons for villains to be here, or else they'll leave. In fact, I barley see any villains these days and that's making me think we're not accommodating them enough.
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Post by hellscream123 on Feb 26, 2019 20:00:33 GMT -5
They've gotten sneaky and quiet about it. Villian now occurs carefully after the actions of some very loud trumpets.
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Post by Asgardian Grey Hawk on Feb 26, 2019 20:20:50 GMT -5
If you didn't have this kind of mentality, there would be no villains on the server. If there are no villains, there'd be no conflicts or PvP. That would be very boring. We must have valid RP reasons for villains to be here, or else they'll leave. In fact, I barley see any villains these days and that's making me think we're not accommodating them enough. I can assure you there are villains here and more then many think. Some even blend in with the rest.
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Post by Razgriz on Feb 26, 2019 22:14:07 GMT -5
Some antiheroes out there too!
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Post by gathera on Feb 27, 2019 0:25:39 GMT -5
If you didn't have this kind of mentality, there would be no villains on the server. If there are no villains, there'd be no conflicts or PvP. That would be very boring. We must have valid RP reasons for villains to be here, or else they'll leave. In fact, I barley see any villains these days and that's making me think we're not accommodating them enough. One reason is that you may barely see any of the ah ethically challenged is to my mind at least two fold. First once your known to be of a certain alignment there is simply no getting that genie back in the bottle so to speak. One has to be careful and I am sure I have driven a great many bonkers by never referring to my faiths directly. A sense of mystery is to my mind crucial. The truth will come out of course. Now not all the evil faiths have to be so clandestine for example Malar and Loviatar both have established churches within Cormyr. Others however don't. Think on this would you like me to wave a big banner around trumpeting my faith. Even seen that done for Shar. Now -that- is a head scratcher. So no I am simply not going to ever tell you directly. Second is the nature of PvP. This is to my experience it is an aspect of role playing that is amazingly hard to accomplish well. It is obviously rather easy to just kill another player but to make it an enjoyable bit of RP for everyone is an immense challenge. Also some people simply have no wish to be involved in such a potentially emotionally charged experience. So I don't engage in PvP. I will involve players in other aspects of my machinations. I will discuss what I have done but always through euphemisms. I have even made enquiries to other players in certain aspects of my nefarious ways. They declined and quite understandably so. It is rather distressing to be the ah sacrificial lamb. So the poor NPC's suffer in their stead Bwahahahaha… *cough* So yes there are the less than ethical types around. You have with Abby even engaged some of them in pleasant conversations. They simply don't have a bold E tattooed in the middle of their foreheads. Well they sort of do *laughing* There are clues of course. I have even posted up to the forums stories of many but not all of these in-game activities. So we of the ethically challenged shan't be so blatantly obvious, we shall make you work to uncover our schemes and I do believe you wouldn't wish it any other way. Remember always, we walk among you.
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Post by bloodalchemist on Feb 27, 2019 1:20:22 GMT -5
Couple things, having to rewrite this as my first post because of rambling. Secondly, while this may not be the perfect thread for this post, the topic has come up in several threads all circling around the same subject, and i felt this thread gave me the best avenue to discuss in a not already heated thread.
1. My character does not need to tolerate anyone's faith in cormyr, good, bad or indifferent. Lets be real, people set a value to something and it can be very hard to sway their mind. Mara hates meddling druidic/harper types almost as much as she hates necromancers and cyric worshippers. All of which is informed by experiences dealing with such people ic and in her backstory. It will take a lot of work to ever change that, and im some cases may not ever happen. (seriously anyone who is crazy enough to trust a cyric worshipper is likely one themselves =P)
2. Not all 'Evil' characters are antagonist in the typical fashion. I have played a good aligned ex-bandit who carried out a hot blooded murder in town. I have also played cold blooded psychopaths who try to foster growth and betterment of those around them. This ties into my next point about guilds, but i'll leave that there. Not all Malarites hunt people for sport, but some certainly do. I think as my both sides point here, would be that people need to not pick and choose. If you want to play a character who offers up prayers to malar on a hunt, or to umberlee before setting sail, you might get some worried looks and suspicious glances your way. Roleplay through it, thats as much a source of great conflict rp as stamping your feet and shouting "No, no bad dudes allowed!" But people who do venerate those questionable faiths need to accept the bad freakin reps their churches have -earned- No amount of "but im not that kind of cyric worshipper!" should ever make people think the gods lore or dogma to his church and followers has changed. You can play however you want rp wise with your priests alignment in the one step system, but at the end of the day your gods dogma is what it is. If someone has the lore or rp to justify knowing it, tough titty. Most gods have some level of multiple facets or purpose, but that doesn't mean players should ignore the very awful stuff the faith gets up to whenever they can.
3. Sometimes though players of evil faiths have to accept when they've gotten a bad rap, it will take years to get people to give you some more rope once again. Salazar I feel is a great example of someone who has shown that growth, for real or as a ruse in character, rather well. Spent years making inroads from early rp that got the character blacklisted to team evil, and has worked his way into a place of authority and shown a largely beneficial public face, enough so that many seem to be willing to trust them again. This also reflects his faith, and while I am unsure of where that currently stands for the character, he portrays a much more acceptable and authentic face of an unsavory faith (if it remains unchanged) than many past examples in cormyr.
Aside: This relates to characters outing their faiths, either their own actions, or others revealing them and losing a great deal of playerbase trust and interaction. FrC has had many, many people display a terrible sense of fair play in the conflict side of rp good vs evil faith/ppl. It's taken years myself to get over some experiences with people who had gone full murder hobo. Unfortunately that means people are slow to trust and extend themselves enough to 'risk' something on every side, which we need to improve at if we want stories to continue and new ones to be told.
4. Guilds. Truth is I see oftentimes people toss out the *whisper* you don't know what goes on behind closed curtains, so dont assume we aren't doing stuff! line, so I'd like to first say, all of the guilds need to continue the current trend of being a bit more open and active with the player base at large, letting out lines and pitfalls to garner non-guildies into their story, and doing so in a manner that isn't pre-calculated to be without fail. Speaking personally, having the side the Ironsworn chose in recent server wide plots take a minor 'loss' in initiative was actually a really interesting turn of events for me. This goes doubly so for faiths and player groups revolving around specific faiths or pantheons. If you want people to respect your rp, you have to do the same to theirs and that means putting one-self in a position of weakness time to time, to garner trust ic and ooc. I do recognize that this is easy to throw out there though. Stuff does happen that we as guild members don't want getting out. Sometimes however we need to be better as a community about revealing what cards we have in our hand. It promotes conflict of politics, religion and morality. For example, The Ironsworn as a whole have gotten up to questionable stuff in the past, especially in do or die moments, such as interrogating an enemy soldier for information leading to the rescue of one of our employers. There was a lot of fallout with some characters who did not accept the methods to which the Ironsworn and some of its more questionablly faithed members were willing to stoop to. I think a lot of players miss out on fun non-pvp avenues of conflict by avoiding guild affiliation fearing being locked down into rp. *shrugs* Not everyone's cup of tea, but just something i wanted to toss out there. Most every guild will be a good place to find conflict rp even amongst fellow guild members, debating what to do next and so on in plots or server wide political games. As well, most guilds are multi-faith, where you can find a lot more acceptable of generally 'unaccepted' faiths in cormyr, or ones that have a bad rap. Even if other guild members worry about it, they will at least often times still rp out that conflict or simple disagreement, leading to some real fun character growth for multiple parties to share as a story.
TLDR; Not everyone is going to accept your reasons for worshipping a questionable faith, or its allowance in frc's version of cormyr, nor should they have to. But that doesn't mean don't roleplay with them, nor always function in a purely hostile "our side must win mindset!" try to find compromise or allow slight weakness to ones position at times to be a better player and allow trust and stories to grow between one another.
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trauson
New Member
Idk.... Alive?
Posts: 95
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Post by trauson on Feb 27, 2019 4:38:41 GMT -5
I simply apply a rule that i like to call I monitor what your characters do all the time. Who they speak whit how they speak whit them.
Is it friendly is it aggresive? Does that person relate whit evil indiciduals of evil faith? Is it stroger than me? Is it goin to stand on my way against me and my sworn enemies?
As a paladin i should be wary on who i travel with and that are their thoughts and beliefs. Specially whit Bahamut whit its strong lawful good moral code.
You will never see him respecting people of evil faiths or people who has "used evil" for "good"
I like how people are reaction against him because it makes everything more real. And i think it helps the setting
Not all paladins are tolerant of evil for a greater good. Some of them their sole pourpose is to erradicate as much evil as they can whithin their morals and dogma
Thats why my paladin wont stop against anyone who cooperates willingly whit chromatic dragons or their workshippers.
And he does not forgive neither Bahamut who those cooperate whit Tiamat. Some of them may be redeemed of their actions and do good. But everything Tiamat related and due the beliefs of people rarely change i think it makes a pretty solid point.
I have a list. Its increasing not because of Trauson. But people piling in and i think its going to be fun for everyone.
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Post by StabbingNirvana on Feb 27, 2019 6:09:29 GMT -5
I think it's fair to say that most people that claim a faith aren't simply giving lipservice to an evil god in a pantheon of very real gods. People that go around claiming their patron faith to be Tiamat, Loviatar, Malar and so on are stating that their core life values align with the worst, most violent, villainous beings that exist in the realms. Random commoners likely won't interact much with said evil-faith claimants out of fear and self preservation (paragraph 13) but that doesnt exactly mean stand out characters like PCs will.
Cormyr itself at least from the contents of the initial post, because it's a nation of laws, cannot just go around and start putting the noose to followers of every evil faith. Instead, it allows them the chance to be productive members of society by publicly practicing a very highly revised, soft version of the faith that are acceptable within the laws and do not disrupt society. Once they step out of line though, Cormyr drops the hammer. Roughly every paragraph from 6 till the end of the post says this. Particularly in the third to last paragraph it even says that Talosian priests steer clear of magically inducing unnatural storms in Cormyr cause they know the War Wizards are keeping tabs on them.
Good and evil are in a neverending struggle to eliminate one or the other. PC characters aren't NPCs and don't operate under the umbrella of what most of the initial post says. Incase it got lost from the original posting of the thread and now, tolerating evil (and their faiths) and fully accepting evil (and their faiths) with arms wide open are two very completely different things. Claiming an evil faith and witnessing the associations of the claimant is enough to rouse heavy suspicion from goodly types and the Crown.
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