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Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Oct 31, 2005 15:03:47 GMT -5
I am working on a system to do away with (or augment) the electrifier. I would really like the system to work with an altar (or similar thing like a recharging pool) where you place say a ruby and in with the item an get 2 charges, a diamond, 5 charges, that sort of thing. So far the only way I have been able to make it work is by deducting gold directly from a player's inventory when they select how many charges they want back on. I could get this system in immediately, or you can hold out for the gemstone system. Do we want the electrfier at all, or both, or neither?
What do you all think?
Cheers!
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Post by moulinous on Oct 31, 2005 15:13:15 GMT -5
i like the pool with the gems thing going on, helps out all of us non mage loveing guys..
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Post by kenny26 on Oct 31, 2005 15:14:37 GMT -5
help us newbs out first and shed some light on how the electrifier actually works (normally) first... i never bought one because they sound expensive and i never pay for anything expensive when i´m not sure how it works... the idea that the electrifier should consume gems sounds troublesome since finding a diamond is extremely rare... finding any gems that will sell for more than a hundred gold pieces is rare to me... so at this point i'm tempted to say go with the cash deduction.
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Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Oct 31, 2005 15:18:06 GMT -5
help us newbs out first and shed some light on how the electrifier actually works (normally) first... i never bought one because they sound expensive and i never pay for anything expensive when i´m not sure how it works... the idea that the electrifier should consume gems sounds troublesome since finding a diamond is extremely rare... finding any gems that will sell for more than a hundred gold pieces is rare to me... so at this point i'm tempted to say go with the cash deduction. The electrifyer will continue to work the way it always has... you feed it magic items and it charges your stuff. The gems are a whole new concept to be used in conjuction with an altar to Gond, or Azuth, etc... you place the gems in the altar with the item to be charged, and voila... but, so far I can just make it work with gold... Anyway, that's the gist.
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Post by kenny26 on Oct 31, 2005 15:27:56 GMT -5
oh, so this isn't about the electrifier? well, in that case it slightly changes my view on it. it sounded troublesome to be because i'd have to buy the electrifier first and then feed it rare gems. but reading that i won't have to buy any expensive items to recharge my items makes it sound alot more fair. if it was only a matter of walking up to an alter and depositing some cash, then every charge item would essentially have an infinate amount of charges, and players would not treasure the charges as highly. if the players had to use gems to recharge the items, then it would be a bit more difficult, but not too difficult. i think this is a great idea, yeah.
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Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on Oct 31, 2005 16:12:26 GMT -5
Yeah I can't tell you exactly how the electrifier works because I have only met one wizard IC that has gotten it to work. It goes something like this: The electrifier destroys items (magical or non) to add charge to itself. Once it reaches 100% you can use it to refill the charges on another item. I'm not sure if you have to wait to 100%, but the little gnome (boomer i think it was) did. Regardless it was definitely a system that is not being used very much at all.
As for the new system, I forsee one problem with it (much like the problem with the electrfier). Basically there are a wide array of items that have charges on the server. These items cost anywhere from 1000 gold to 200K. Yet, it costs the same amount to recharge the 200K item as it does the 1K item. This makes sense only in the idea that a charge is a charge is a charge and it doesn't matter what item it is being placed on. However, this does make some of the items that are low cost with charges pointless to have them have charges, as it is cheaper to just buy a new one rather recharge it.
So maybe the solution should be that all the low cost items are converted to use/day, and high priced items use this new system. Just a thought.
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Post by kenny26 on Nov 1, 2005 14:03:58 GMT -5
you're making an important point.
recharging a gem of seeing (priced at 20k or was it 40k? anyhow it only has little over 10 uses so it's expensive) is gonna be just as easy as recharging a wand with a first level spell in it...
i'm not sure making the low level items use per day instead of charges is the best way to handle it. there are already some low level spells stored in items that have 1 use per day, and even though they're incredibly expensive, and hard to get, everyone seems to be using them.
making all low level spells stored in items usable one or more times per day would just make these other items worthless by comparison, and players will be wondering why they paid over 100k for a few items with that spell.
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Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on Nov 1, 2005 14:43:15 GMT -5
Also, I was thinking that depositing gold and not gems wouldn't necessarily make people appreciate the charges less, especially if you charged something like 500 coin for 2 charges. But I don't think this is as large an issue as the one I previously mentioned.
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Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Nov 1, 2005 15:37:05 GMT -5
It's not that expensive of a process. I had it set at about 300 gp per charge... now I am looking at 200 gp a charge. Really, it's a pretty easy deal.
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Post by olwentheold on Nov 3, 2005 4:20:10 GMT -5
I like the idea of the gem thing but the current system in regards to the electrifier is kinda cool simply because it's an item that only wizards can use (as it should be!). The whole process of recharging magical items, IMO, should be the domain of wizards, and solely wizard - that's my 2 cents.
The electrifier confuses the hell out of me though, simply because I can't use one myself and rely on a wizard friend to do it - but from what I understand from it - it could use a revision of some kind: we were gathering items to get the electrifier charged up, midway - after having it charged up a little (at the expense of some valuable items), the wizard had to log (and the server reset in that time) and all our efforts were lost.
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Post by Keetena on Nov 3, 2005 5:31:49 GMT -5
I like the idea of the gem thing but the current system in regards to the electrifier is kinda cool simply because it's an item that only wizards can use (as it should be!). The whole process of recharging magical items, IMO, should be the domain of wizards, and solely wizard - that's my 2 cents. My two cents: One of the things I like more in be a bard it's the fact that 'only wizards and no one more' isn't always aplicable .
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Post by kenny26 on Nov 3, 2005 9:38:34 GMT -5
I like the idea of the gem thing but the current system in regards to the electrifier is kinda cool simply because it's an item that only wizards can use (as it should be!). The whole process of recharging magical items, IMO, should be the domain of wizards, and solely wizard - that's my 2 cents. you're missing the point of this topic... as it turns out, if you use up all the charges in a cloak of the manticore, the cloak is destroyed even though it still has other useful properties. this is all wrong. cloaks that contain spells and charges as secondary abilities shouldn't be destroyed like this, not as long as they still have their primary abilities. the only simple solution for this is to make it possible for anyone, not just wizards, to recharge these items to prevent them from being destroyed because they run out. not everyone knows a wizard, and it would be far too troublesome to leave it only to those wizards to recharge these items.
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Post by Munroe on Nov 3, 2005 12:39:54 GMT -5
Actually, I think you can prevent something from being destroyed when it is out of charges if you set it as a "plot" item. We had some trouble on another server I played where the custom single-use items weren't disappearing like they were supposed to.
The downside of making something a plot item is ...if I'm recalling correctly... merchants won't buy them.
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Post by Talus on Nov 3, 2005 12:48:10 GMT -5
Actually, I think you can prevent something from being destroyed when it is out of charges if you set it as a "plot" item. We had some trouble on another server I played where the custom single-use items weren't disappearing like they were supposed to. The downside of making something a plot item is ...if I'm recalling correctly... merchants won't buy them. That would be a big down side.
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Post by StabbingNirvana on Nov 3, 2005 13:08:01 GMT -5
you know, for the electifier 1% is equal to 10 gold. that makes each charge on the electrifier 1000 gold. if each charge on the pool is 200 gp, there is something unfair going on there...
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Post by thogrimur on Nov 3, 2005 14:31:48 GMT -5
I like the idea of the gem thing but the current system in regards to the electrifier is kinda cool simply because it's an item that only wizards can use (as it should be!). The whole process of recharging magical items, IMO, should be the domain of wizards, and solely wizard - that's my 2 cents. you're missing the point of this topic... as it turns out, if you use up all the charges in a cloak of the manticore, the cloak is destroyed even though it still has other useful properties. this is all wrong. cloaks that contain spells and charges as secondary abilities shouldn't be destroyed like this, not as long as they still have their primary abilities. the only simple solution for this is to make it possible for anyone, not just wizards, to recharge these items to prevent them from being destroyed because they run out. not everyone knows a wizard, and it would be far too troublesome to leave it only to those wizards to recharge these items. Actually the point of the thread is that Justicar has asked all of us what we all think of this idea...Olwen merely gave his thoughts...and he has valid points...which I happen to agree with. I also like the concept, but it does take away an ability that has been solely the domain of Wizards (and maybe Bards, I dunno if they can use this or not) - if you don't know a wizard, find one. They are not that rare. I know four wizards that are around and capable (assuming they have the electifier) - this new system would detract from the overall RP on the server, by eliminating players ever having a need to actually find said wizards and RP with them to obtain the service. As it stands Wizards cannot profit from making scrolls or potions...why take this away from them as well? I also believe it would demean the value of charged items unless the cost of recharging was incredibly high. Even 500-1000 gold per charge is nothing when some of y'all are raking in tens of thousands of coin a day. (even at higher costs, people will still not value an items charges when they know full well they can just run back to the pool and have it recharged any 'ol time) I like the concept, and will admit it is definitely easier than finding the wizard and RPing with them. But I just think it makes it TOO easy. Sorry, but I have to give this idea a thumbs down.
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Post by Talus on Nov 3, 2005 14:43:53 GMT -5
I like alot of Thorgimur's points, but what if you had to find a wizard to use the pool, making it so it cost coins and not magice items.
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Post by thogrimur on Nov 3, 2005 15:21:27 GMT -5
Yeah, that's not a bad thought...not bad at all...
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Post by Talus on Nov 3, 2005 15:26:48 GMT -5
Hmm...there's a magical tower in Suzail that would a good place to put said pool. Or out in the middle of nowhere.
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Post by moulinous on Nov 3, 2005 15:28:05 GMT -5
or put it in the vast swamp or hullak forest so there is something worth the walk that way... like behind a certain waterfall where a corpse is now, guarded by some really tuff wizards or clerics off Mystra who charge and run the pool. they are the ones you hafta to talk to to get it done. some good rping there i think.
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Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Nov 3, 2005 15:30:27 GMT -5
Hmm...there's a magical tower in Suzail that would a good place to put said pool. Or out in the middle of nowhere. There would likely be one centrally located (expensive) and one (or more) in natural surroundings that would be cheaper but would require someone with lore skills, move silently skills, etc... not necessarily a wizard. I don't want to give away too much. Heck, most of you probably would never find the recharging pool anyway, the way I bury stuff in the module. Anyway, I appreciate all the input thus far. I will probably table this one until phase one of lag reduction is complete. But please keep the comments coming. Cheers!
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Post by Talus on Nov 3, 2005 15:44:55 GMT -5
I'll just tell Vind there is new stuff to find. He'll drop out of school and find all of it for me j/k
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Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on Nov 3, 2005 16:16:31 GMT -5
I'll just tell Vind there is new stuff to find. He'll drop out of school and find all of it for me j/k HHAHAHAHHA it is sooo true though HAHAHHA ;D
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Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Nov 3, 2005 22:04:32 GMT -5
I'll just tell Vind there is new stuff to find. He'll drop out of school and find all of it for me j/k Man makes a good point...
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Post by StabbingNirvana on Nov 4, 2005 10:27:15 GMT -5
i think this post was lost on page one ...
"you know, for the electifier 1% is equal to 10 gold. that makes each charge on the electrifier 1000 gold. if each charge on the pool is 200 gp, there is something unfair going on there... "
there you folk go ...
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Post by kenny26 on Nov 4, 2005 19:06:30 GMT -5
I like alot of Thorgimur's points, but what if you had to find a wizard to use the pool, making it so it cost coins and not magice items. i like this idea too..
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Post by Talus on Jan 7, 2006 9:46:07 GMT -5
Just curious, did anything ever come of this?
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Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Jan 7, 2006 11:59:42 GMT -5
I have a system that would work to just take gold from a players inventory and replace with charges. So far the system hasn't worked out exactly as I would have liked and I haven't had the time to really push the issue.
But, with some work I am finishing today and tommorow I should have a chance to look back into this this week or maybe next. Or I could just put the system in as is, and it works; it just takes gold, not gems.
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Post by Talus on Jan 7, 2006 12:44:53 GMT -5
Cool! Thanks for the update
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Post by Hackmaster on Jan 7, 2006 15:54:57 GMT -5
Hmm I like the idea but I think it still should be made that only those with good lore such as wizards, bards, clerics for cleric type items because they are the ones with the knowledge of magic or the divine. As for making it easier I have been told time and again I want a door or chest unlocked find a thief. Doors are marked plot and chests as well so bashing and using Knock may be normally possible but it's not here. The justification given is usually this is party based RP server and you will be taking one of the jobs of the thief away from them. I can sympathize with that even if it's not D&D-like to allow people their own ways to get around a problem. Such as Knock spell or a strong warriors impatience, or even maybe finding a key once in awhile to something. The point I am making is this....Magic always is hard to overcome allowing any player to simply walk up to a pool and charge their low to uber items back up should be the basic domain of wizards, Sorcerers, Druids, clerics, and maybe Bards. I could be missing someone but you get the point. Want a item charged find a wizard or something that can do it. It may not be easy but neither is killing a boss and finding out half the treasure in the room is trapped and locked up or you find out half way through the dungeon you have to turn around and go home because a door is locked and the party could not gain a rogue. I am not trying to pick on the rogue it's just one of the more common problems I can think of that falls in line with this. I think the idea of the pool is great though, the gems...the money, whichever, is pretty interesting. Maybe install the money to pool system for now and when you can get a chance if you still want to do the gems convert it when your ready. I do believe the electrifier thing is too rare and knocks some classes out that maybe should be able to recharge items. I am a 15th level wizard and I still don't use the thing. If it is possible though to make it so only those that have pretty good scores in Lore....and I mean good because two +5 rings of lore do wonders for the classes who don't have the skill or barely put points in it say 20 something lore or maybe even using the Use Magic Device skill allowing some classes the chance to use the pool with a good Magic Device Skill. I know I certainly have not found any Rings of Lock Picking +5 and because they are so common most anyone without the skill has two so they may identify stuff. I know only the newest of people have ever asked for my help in identifying items and I mean NEW I don't think that Wizards should be completely exclusive to powering items anymore then thieves should be exclusive to locks but this system of recharging should not be made available to just anyone. Many classes have little to no understanding of magic and the idea of a barbarian walking up and recharging his little stone of Bigby's Forceful Hand makes me shudder. Does anyone detect any bitterness on the shaft wizards take that I feel These subjects just keep popping up lately and reminds me of just one more thing where a simple item was made to cut us out of being needed such as Ring of Lore +5. Let the dice fall where they may
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