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Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on Oct 2, 2005 22:33:11 GMT -5
As I haven't been IC for a while, I don't really know what is going on, so this entire discourse might be null and void.
A lot of stuff has been brought up in terms of PvP recently, and it really has gotten out of control in my opnion. It has gotten so bad that our RP discussions forum is getting off topic with IC info. So I just want to send a shout out to all my peeps: CHILL!!!
Alright, so Hroth is dead. I am so surprised anybody but Vind got upset about it at all. I mean he wasn't even nice. Think about your character and what he has done to your character in the past. I'm sure some way down the line he has tried to screw you one way or another. But now it seems like the *chickenwing* has really hit the fan. From what I can tell, it is kill every banite on sight. Well you know what ... this can lead down a path of very hard feelings alright. Now I'm not disgruntled at all, and I really hate to have this stuff start happening cause of me (I'm sure it is not ALL because of me, but it certainly seems like I was the straw that broke the camel's back). So we need to come up with an IC reason to stop these shenanigans, and I think that if we do it together as a community, coming up with something where everyone wins, I think that is all the better.
Unless you guys like kicking the crap out of each other all the time? I for one will be removing myself from the whole banite war thing if I am brought back. And if the tensions continue to rise as I am perceiving them, then I will remove myself from FRC as well.
Like I said, I may be percieving this incorrectly because i am not actually in there, but FRC is better than PvP conflicts that end up in brawling in the streets disrupting all the other wonderful RP that goes on.
So I guess the question is: Do we need something to resolve the situations that are going on, or does everyone like the way it is going?
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Post by Grozer on Oct 2, 2005 22:56:42 GMT -5
You're right and I take the blame for it getting out of hand. I'm already working on toning it down from this side. I'll do my best to shut up now... although I know it's difficult for me.
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Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on Oct 2, 2005 23:28:46 GMT -5
Not just you Groz, i get the sense from everyone that tension is rising. I am starting to see a trend of negativity in posts. I am just looking to see if anyone else recognises this and thinks that something may need to change and what that change might be.
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Post by Talus on Oct 2, 2005 23:57:35 GMT -5
I too get the sense that tensions are rising. I don't really want to see a rule change. I am not sure what the solution is. I think it should be toned back a touch. I understand a lot of great RP has lead to this current situation. But with neither side able to "win" it makes it difficult to RP back to normalacy. I am sure one the great minds in our community can come up with a solution.
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Boogiedk
Old School
A mans home is his castle - But it shouldnt have to be his fortress
Posts: 252
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Post by Boogiedk on Oct 3, 2005 0:35:50 GMT -5
Good Vs. Evil , the age old conflict. Gero couldnt care less about Hroths fate . In his eyes Hrothgar Redbeard was a kidnapper , extortionist (did he murder somebody as well ? cant remember) and the banites cooking him up and feeding him , to the thayans was it? , is just OOC Funny  and IC justice served ( get the pun ?  ). BUT .... A certain Banite has used the church of Tyr for his own sinister purpose desecrating our holy Temple with pledges of being good , doing no wrong yada yada ... only for a week later restoring his faith in Bane. That will simply not stand and he must be held accountable for his actions , which means he must lose his head. Other Banites have escapen justice for too long. What are we that play good characters supposed to do ? Let it slide ? let evil run free ? Because if thats the case I will remove myself sooner or later from FRC. And face it. Evil characters are there cause they are allowed to play evil characters. Conflict is inevitable (sp?) when we have a "full" PvP server and so many chooses to be either good or evil. The problem as i see it : In PnP when you "dispose", be it trial in the courts or death, of the evil/good arch enemy, you are sure that he will get what he deserves , and he wont be back for atleast a few sessions. But here you can log on the next day and see the protagonist smiling at the inn or at the campfire. I dont have a solution but , I agree in that it is problem Sorry for ranting Be good B. |
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Post by DM Grizwald on Oct 3, 2005 1:42:18 GMT -5
Well, i've gotten a little carried away in pvp, well lets face it, i've been in alot of them, lost a number of times. Now, i've gotten myself caught in a mind game with some banite power, thats all that will be said cause its kinda fun and is leading to great rp'ing. I've turned down the pvp lvls and focussing on rp rather then improving my char's stats as to not lose anymore. Evil influence on characters is also a good way to introduce new plots instead of fight fight fight!!!
now i tend to ramble and not make sense so i stop here
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Post by Kolfrosta on Oct 3, 2005 7:48:36 GMT -5
Not sure what PvP we are talking about. Haven't engaged in it since Visitant "challenged" Sharita a few weeks ago...still wish she would have fought instead of run away....I never even touched her....did I say I "hate" the greater sanctuary spell?? ;D Even with these tensions rising, I have yet to see a couple of them even try to gang up on Sharita.... But the why, isn't so much that it was Hroth, but what was done to him ( sorry guys, I thought it was gross, disgusting, and WAY over the top) .....and what information they might have tortured from him ...  |
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Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on Oct 3, 2005 11:29:32 GMT -5
Ok now I am getting the sense that people are cool with the way things are going. If this is true then there isnt really a problem. The problem I forsaw was someone getting their feelings hurt over the things that were occuring. If this is the case, then we need to come up with a solution for what is going on. If everyone is enjoying themselves, then there isnt a problem. So, is there anyone out there that sees the recent events being unhealthy for FRC as a community?
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Manshin
Old School
FRC2 Build Team
Posts: 703
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Post by Manshin on Oct 3, 2005 12:51:30 GMT -5
I love it. Dont change a thing.
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Post by kenny26 on Oct 3, 2005 14:15:31 GMT -5
since this whole hroth/banites/torture/canibal thing took off, the war-loving swordsman of tempus has been involved in ZERO PvP.
i'm not sensing alot of encounters taking place between good guys and bad guys lately, nothing other than the usual at least.
what i'm trying to say, i guess, is that from my perspective things are going just fine.
the only thing that does bug me a bit is that i have to agree with kilfrosta.
what happened to hroth was just sickening. this is PG 14 and you're going in to waay too much detail about the torture, cutting off his hands, and finally feeding him to the thayans...
i wriggled my nose reading some of the things as i gradually found out about it (being told ic by padrin and reading the RP forums).
just try to keep things in line with the PG limit. saying you torture him is enough, those who wouldn't mind getting more detail can imagine for themselves what excactely went on.
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Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on Oct 3, 2005 14:20:48 GMT -5
Well did Padrin at least tell you guys that after having his hands cut off, he grabbed vis with his arms and headbutted her ... that was my favorite part ... And yeah that was a totally rated R scene ... so I guess people should have been warned OOC about what they were about to hear. Course I didn't tell anyone |
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Post by Grozer on Oct 3, 2005 14:51:56 GMT -5
since this whole hroth/banites/torture/canibal thing took off, the war-loving swordsman of tempus has been involved in ZERO PvP. i'm not sensing alot of encounters taking place between good guys and bad guys lately, nothing other than the usual at least. what i'm trying to say, i guess, is that from my perspective things are going just fine. the only thing that does bug me a bit is that i have to agree with kilfrosta. what happened to hroth was just sickening. this is PG 14 and you're going in to waay too much detail about the torture, cutting off his hands, and finally feeding him to the thayans... i wriggled my nose reading some of the things as i gradually found out about it (being told ic by padrin and reading the RP forums). just try to keep things in line with the PG limit. saying you torture him is enough, those who wouldn't mind getting more detail can imagine for themselves what excactely went on. Good point.. I guess when I was writing it didn't sound that bad, but I will go back and edit my posts to take out some of that... I didnt intend to offend anyone... As a note, I went back through and re-read some of the items and I dont see the canibal thing... but maybe its interpretation. Second, the bucket showing up was not something we RP'd or I even envisioned happening, I am not sure how the bucket was created. Anyway, I'll remove my foot from my mouth and will have my posts edited down in a day or two... |
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Post by StabbingNirvana on Oct 3, 2005 18:29:05 GMT -5
i think the whole pvp tension is rather cool. gives you something to do/ think about when leaving isinhold. without pvp tension, it would just be running around the same dungeons over and over and over again.
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Post by DM Grizwald on Oct 3, 2005 20:14:32 GMT -5
to clear a few things up:
im sorry for going into to much detail, but i was having a little fun. i know im sick, i'll tone it down
secondly the bucket thing, i dont know what dm did it but a friend and i talked to a thayan and found a bucket of food
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Post by marklar on Oct 4, 2005 12:27:52 GMT -5
ok i've been involved in PvP alot rescently, mainly saving people from jail time but every chance my character has had to try and stop he has tried to RP out the situation, mind you it never worked but hey i tried. and most of the time it really shouldn't of worked. what about all the non lvl 15 or up people? it's hard on them when they have to take on people that high of a lvl. like i fought hroth i'm lvl 11 i tried and failed. it's just like and good person my lvl vs shessara, it's not gonna work out for the lower lvl. we have to remember this is a RP server and when there's no RP it's just PvP and the only RP i've really been doing is the "oh vis is in jail let's break her out" type thing. |
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Manshin
Old School
FRC2 Build Team
Posts: 703
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Post by Manshin on Oct 4, 2005 17:00:06 GMT -5
Oh I dont know Marklar, you and Manshin have had a pretty good RP... the whole torture scene and all... though I do know what you mean. It all goes to player responsibility. What the outcome of this thread should probably be is just a set of ethical guidelines for the way we conduct PvP. We all have motivations and arguments about who killed who and how they did it, but to make things constructive, lets try and layout guidlines.
1) Dont purposefully seek out characters to duel one on one who have absoulutly no chance to beat you. If they challenge you, thats their problem. Though forcing them to challenge you by antagonising them is the same deal.
2) Try to set "real" traps. In other words, dont force people through RP to do something when they know OOC that they are being led into a blatent trap. If you can fool them for real into your trap, then they wont feel like they got forced into a hopeless situation.
3) This one many of us have talked about before. If you get killed, sit out of events for a while. Like a war simulation. How long? Thats up to you, just try to be resonsible.
4) If you die, and lag was to blame, just remember that your oponent had lag too. Try not to cheapin their victory by attributing it to lag. Of course, that is always frustraiting.
5) Remember that no matter how much your characters hate one another, the person on the other side is probably a nice person, so try to keep things friendly OOC by not taking RP seriously.
6) If you are preparing an ambush, dont do it right on an area transition, just because it's not realistic. That is especillay true with traps. (Like spike traps and sonic traps.) If you are mounting a defense of a house, trap the door, but not the floor where they appear. The trap on the door can be detected, however when they warp into the house via the area transition and land on a trap, that is unfair and unrealistic since there is no chance for detection or avoidence.
Please add things if you can think of them.
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Post by Talus on Oct 4, 2005 17:02:23 GMT -5
Well said Manshin.
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Post by kenny26 on Oct 4, 2005 17:08:02 GMT -5
allow characters to scurry away if they fear you and know they'd be hard pressed to fight you.
an example of this was jargo stumbling into jandor by chance in the bralmblewoods.
jandor was about half my level, naturally he didn't stand a chance. even when he used that shapechange scroll to turn himself into a pit fiend (ic it was an ice demon i think), i was still beating him.
he turned and ran for the hills north of the woods.
once he reached the top of the hill with me right on his tail, he mannaged to quickly type *spreads wings and takes off*.
i thought that was great RP considering how the game engine could never simulate movement in more than 2 dimensions, so i let him get away (ooc i just stopped at the hill top and let him run off).
so always give your opponent the chance to back down, and vice versa. be reallistic, you'd try to run from a hopeless situation too, no?
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Post by Grozer on Oct 4, 2005 17:10:48 GMT -5
1) Dont purposefully seek out characters to duel one on one who have absoulutly no chance to beat you. If they challenge you, thats their problem. Though forcing them to challenge you by antagonising them is the same deal. I agree with almost everything you said except this one.. well a modification of it. Had I followed this rule exactly, I never would have had the great RP that is currently going on with Aelrik (over Aeris). Mind you I didnt "seek" him out specifically to go PvP... but had this been a rule it would have prevented Ranan from initiating this story. I guess the general idea is correct... dont intentially go after characters that have zero chance of beating you. I just wanted to add that one clarification. I have a few other suggestions that I'll add later... |
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Post by Grozer on Oct 4, 2005 17:38:31 GMT -5
Continue from Manshin's recommendations:
Both of these are mostly directed at evil characters as I think they have a slightly greater responsibility to control the level of PvP. With that said these concepts can be applied evenly across all characters...
7. NEVER fight in town. Look we have to RP these are big cities SOMEONE is always around. You MUST RP fear of the consequences of such actions.. Don’t think you are playing a weak character… even at level 40, no one of us can take on the entire War Wizard/PD forces!
This is true regardless of alignment. A Paladin of Tyr would not be overly confident while standing in the middle of the Thayan enclave. Or for example, if there is ever a "seedy area" created, i.e. one that is obviously controlled by evil forces, I would expect good PCs to doubt their safety should they enter. Think about a cop or two entering a gang ridden neighborhood.
Yes I know, there are some good PCs on this server that could probably wipe out the Thayan enclave or some evil characters that could wipe out all NPCs in Isinhold, but is that realistic? Wouldn't the character in either scenario be slightly apprehensive or intimidated by the unknown or repercussions?
8. This one is kinda self directed and follows from 7 but characters should understand there is more going on around them and it should effect RP. I try to remind all Banites that keep in the back of your characters mind at any time, the crown could sic a squad of PDs and WWs on your behind.
At the same time, I really believe good characters should incorporate a similar fear of consequences. Yes I know, Paladin are proud and do not fear evil, etc. but in general your characters thought processes, Paladin or not would/should be considering, "this could open up a full war with the Zhentarim who have a stronghold just sitting outside of town?"
Ok I know many will disagree, but for the record I have recently really started reiterating these ideas to all the evil characters I run with, since I personally feel it makes our decisions more realistic and encourages the character to think twice before taking an opponent out.
Anyway take it for what its worth...
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Post by marklar on Oct 5, 2005 0:02:49 GMT -5
ok well the thing is the PvP i want to say it random for lack of a better word. everyone is killing everyone who they know and or think is a threat even if it means far lower lvl characters
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Post by Kolfrosta on Oct 5, 2005 6:49:02 GMT -5
Everyone is killing everyone??? I'm MISSING THIS!!! ;D Actually, since Hroth's death, Sharita has engaged in PvP exactly....zero.....times. Oh yes, I'll toggle the like/dislike everytime one of the "known Banites" (the ones Sharita knows about) log in...even if I have no intention of leaving Isinhold.. or if I am going to log out shortly...or even if I intend to take my character out into the wilderness.....never know who you will cross paths with and when |
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and IC justice served ( get the pun ? 
). BUT ....
