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Post by arisnorman1 on Oct 9, 2011 11:39:53 GMT -5
idk i find it funny how they kick us Evils around yet the goodies ACT evil rather then good in most cases that i'v been in on Aris and on Garmath not once did i insult and they insult threaten to kill and then cry because they threaten them and kill them i mean come on they are evil what do you think is ganna happen there ganna smile and take it *rolls eyes*
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sandcastles
Proven Member
A kingdom to crumble.
Posts: 111
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Post by sandcastles on Oct 9, 2011 14:19:39 GMT -5
Randomly,
the biggest reason I retired vorel is because every time someone did something blatant in front of her that was evil, it was her personality to completely vaporize said person.
I didn't think it would be fair, given how powerful she was, for me to allow her to just stomp people into the ground like that, so instead she'd talk a bit, people would ignore her, and I'd make some excuse for her to leave. It was -really- tedious. In retrospect, I think should that ever come around again my next chaotic neutral with good leaning character will just crush people. And I'm not the type to give out free raises. Consequences. Yay!
Quite frankly, 'being chaotic evil' and 'fearing no consequences due to -insert whatever ridiculous reason here-' are entirely different things. Being chaotic doesn't mean you don't value your own life, or feel pain when you're hurt or punished. Being mentally crippled isn't evil or good. It's just mentally crippled.
There's also a big difference between a sour attitude and evil. A low charisma score on a good character might come across as surly and mean. A high charisma score on an evil might come across as quite nice on the flip side.
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Post by arisnorman1 on Oct 9, 2011 15:25:07 GMT -5
i enjoyed all the time V tried to kill aris like when she captured him in the woods near the Thayan Enclave heh before Salinas exacution it was all fun rp
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Post by lowstorm on Oct 9, 2011 15:42:56 GMT -5
I dunno, the loss of xp and potential loss of levels is a pretty harsh punishment for doing bad. The worst us baddies do is make someone respawn. Yeah, it hurts, but worst case scenario there, you're not liable to lose levels over it. If the bad guys go out and torture/kill a good guy,.... they'll come back too. Its not JUST bad guys that come back repeatedly, even if it happens to us more often.
Getting kicked out of towns, having to hide/change your identity often, so on and so forth is rather drastic things we do in our rp to make it so we can play too. But perhaps all the evil alignment players should go on strike and only hang out in places without the good guys for a week. I'm fairly sure the good guys will get bored and come find us after a while.
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Post by FORSETIS on Oct 9, 2011 19:50:26 GMT -5
idk i find it funny how they kick us Evils around yet the goodies ACT evil rather then good in most cases that i'v been in on Aris and on Garmath not once did i insult and they insult threaten to kill and then cry because they threaten them and kill them i mean come on they are evil what do you think is ganna happen there ganna smile and take it *rolls eyes* ARIS!!! Damn it, use punctuation!
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Post by The Supreme Watcher on Oct 9, 2011 20:00:19 GMT -5
A low charisma score on a good character might come across as surly and mean. Banril! Yay!
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sandcastles
Proven Member
A kingdom to crumble.
Posts: 111
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Post by sandcastles on Oct 9, 2011 20:01:00 GMT -5
i enjoyed all the time V tried to kill aris like when she captured him in the woods near the Thayan Enclave heh before Salinas exacution it was all fun rp Actually she never tried to kill him, she -should- have killed him, instead she 'stopped him' and 'talked to him' a bit. I didn't feel that slaughtering Aris would be particularly fair.
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Post by arisnorman1 on Oct 9, 2011 20:53:30 GMT -5
lol we where on hostile and i was held i thought i was a gonner XD
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Post by arisnorman1 on Oct 9, 2011 20:54:47 GMT -5
i don't belive in them i am to lazy to *shrugs*
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Post by canuckkane on Oct 9, 2011 21:26:07 GMT -5
I'm going to agree with Ronso's player here in that being openly evil does not necessarily mean 'stupid evil'. Quite the contrary, to play being openly evil in a way that doesn't result in you being obliterated by every so-called goodly do-right on the server with enough levels behind them to try it is not easy. That said... playing an openly evil character is a very lonely existence, so you had best be prepared for that. You -may- get the odd character that is willing to sit and chat with you, but by and large nobody will be travelling with you because this server is full of people hopping on the goody two shoes bandwagon. Those that are fence riders tend to shun the openly evils because if they don't they get ostracised by their 'friends' for not being sternly anti-evil and in some cases being told that they're just as bad. I define stupid evil thusly: SE Character: Ha! I just killed three people for calling me stupid, IR EVULZ! Others: Wow... you really are stupid. SE Character: Shut up or I'll kill you too!! I could go on but I think you get the idea. Yes the above example is simplified, but it's generally where I reside for stupid evil. Anyone that goes around openly bragging about their law breaking behaviour is painting a giant bullseye on themselves and are going to get their butt handed to them in short order. Do I utterly ignore them? No. Ignoring other PC's because they don't fit your perfect ideal of RP just seems short sighted. Is it annoying to have to deal with them, sure, but that's the great thing about choice. My PC doesn't have to stick around when he sees others he's not fond of.
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Post by Dobian on Oct 10, 2011 1:58:02 GMT -5
On another server I play on, there is a rating system. Not how evil you are but what your status is with the law. When you reach a certain threshold, NPC guards will attack you on site. Hello! Allow me to share a few thoughts with you. If i understood right, the problem is that current penalties for a crime don't make law-breakers affraid much of a persecution nor a captive, and the perma-kill method is too radical mostly. I will not be original and return to the other PC games experience. Karma system can often be seen in a many MMORG projects. When the player name of a "bad guy" colored in red, what encourages others separate him and kill in every opportune situation. If they have succeded or he die any other way, "cursed" player respawn but has a chance to loose a part of his gearTES series and the other single-player games offers us the other system, based on NPC-guard interaction. This one is very flexible and depends from the prevailing moral: in one case a guard will just cut off the hand of a thief (cut off the tongue of a slandering man, spike the eyes of a spy, do the pacification aka Dragon Age etc.), otherwise deprive a physical abilty of doing a crime, in the other way a guard will be more than happy to take a bride instead or take him to a prison where the skills and physical parameters of enprisoned constantly decreases in a random way . Also the bad reputation affects NPC depending of their own aligment there: the fair NPC folks and merchants are being frightened and don't want to have a deal with a crimer (quests, trading) while the dark persons give him an access to their service, bonded with a rounding bail (new quests, trading). By the way, i've been always wandering what example of social relation could be appropriate for a forgotten realms. Thank you!
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Post by FORSETIS on Oct 10, 2011 2:27:42 GMT -5
I'm going to agree with Ronso's player here in that being openly evil does not necessarily mean 'stupid evil'. Quite the contrary, to play being openly evil in a way that doesn't result in you being obliterated by every so-called goodly do-right on the server with enough levels behind them to try it is not easy. That said... playing an openly evil character is a very lonely existence, so you had best be prepared for that. You -may- get the odd character that is willing to sit and chat with you, but by and large nobody will be travelling with you because this server is full of people hopping on the goody two shoes bandwagon. Those that are fence riders tend to shun the openly evils because if they don't they get ostracised by their 'friends' for not being sternly anti-evil and in some cases being told that they're just as bad. I define stupid evil thusly: SE Character: Ha! I just killed three people for calling me stupid, IR EVULZ! Others: Wow... you really are stupid. SE Character: Shut up or I'll kill you too!! I could go on but I think you get the idea. Yes the above example is simplified, but it's generally where I reside for stupid evil. Anyone that goes around openly bragging about their law breaking behaviour is painting a giant bullseye on themselves and are going to get their butt handed to them in short order. Do I utterly ignore them? No. Ignoring other PC's because they don't fit your perfect ideal of RP just seems short sighted. Is it annoying to have to deal with them, sure, but that's the great thing about choice. My PC doesn't have to stick around when he sees others he's not fond of. Well said. *clicks like button*
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Post by 828stingstingneo on Oct 10, 2011 8:14:09 GMT -5
Personally, I prefer to play Stupid Neutral. by the way aris maybe you could at least hit enter between sentences it takes the same effort as hitting the space bar and will create breaks that make your posts easier to understand
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Post by Dobian on Oct 10, 2011 12:29:49 GMT -5
I dunno, the loss of xp and potential loss of levels is a pretty harsh punishment for doing bad. The worst us baddies do is make someone respawn. Yeah, it hurts, but worst case scenario there, you're not liable to lose levels over it. If the bad guys go out and torture/kill a good guy,.... they'll come back too. Its not JUST bad guys that come back repeatedly, even if it happens to us more often. Getting kicked out of towns, having to hide/change your identity often, so on and so forth is rather drastic things we do in our rp to make it so we can play too. But perhaps all the evil alignment players should go on strike and only hang out in places without the good guys for a week. I'm fairly sure the good guys will get bored and come find us after a while. I don't think evil characters die any more often than good characters, it's just more high profile so it sticks out in people's minds. Few people remember when Joe Evil killed Jane Good in a pvp, but Joe Evil's execution gets remembered by everyone. This is not a permadeath server. Anyone who is that upset about an evil character coming back from the grave should just go play on a permadeath server. I play on a Ravenloft server that is a permadeath server. And I can say with certainty that one of my characters over there will eventually die permanently. On the boards over there, threads like this don't exist. Dying on FRC is not realistic, regardless of your alignment. You die, you respawn. Most executions of evil characters happen not because the player did something stupid, but because the player of the evil character worked with a DM or other players to make their capture possible to create a story. I did it twice. I also worked with DMs to create resurrection stories that were perfectly plausible and made sense within the story that was being told. Some players of evil characters make it so their evil character never gets caught. That is fine, it's how they like to play. Other players want their characters to get caught because of the drama and intrigue it creates. It makes for a lot of fun role play for everyone.
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Post by The Supreme Watcher on Oct 10, 2011 13:18:23 GMT -5
Honestly, the thing I hate more than any stupid evil is 'cute' evil. I don't see it often on FRC, but I'll explain what I mean anyhow.
When I played on Amia, there were evil PCs who were known as 'social' PCs. They didn't adventure, they didn't dungeon, they didn't do PvP, they just sat around and chatted. All day. Lolthites, Banites, Loviatans, and in one case, a straight up player-run ERINYES.
They didn't do anything of value. They sat around and talked about how evil they were, and kissed and hugged and blah blah blah. Any time someone actually tried to play off of their evil in a realistic way (i.e.: conflict with them, or denounce their evil ways, or, you know, get them to do actual evil things), they would whine and moan about how players were griefing them. Once upon a time, my Sunite Paladin killed the PC-run Erinyes, and I was flamed for weeks about it. FOR KILLING A DEVIL. She was 'in love' with another PC, though, so the Paladin was obviously the bad guy.
Just for cautionary measures, I want to explain what evil is: it is the unequivocal force of maliciousness in the Faerûnian multiverse. It is not cute, it is disgusting. It is not being 'moody,' it is being remorseless and cruel.
Evil is murder, rape, torture, violence against the innocent, pacts with devils and demons, desecration of the values that make people good, and the embodiment of all of the sins humanity is capable of.
So, before you click on that 'Neutral Evil' alignment in character creation, please, decide if your character is actually evil, or is just moody and misunderstood - and click on something else if that's what you want to put forward.
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Post by verycoldbeer on Oct 10, 2011 13:18:23 GMT -5
Whenever I start a new server, I always play a good character first. To get the lay of land, see what it's like etc.
Then I usually make an evil PC at some point to RP with as well. I actually don't have a favorite alignment unless you call CN crazy a favorite.
I know my limitations when it comes to playing almost any alignment, I'm not going to play LG ever, you will never see me play a paladin, because frankly while I might be able to do it, it frustrates the goo out of me.. yep I used goo. But on the other hand I will never play CE, because on a server where I would like to be able to let a character grow and flourish CE, just doesn't seem to be the alignment for that. Now that could be my interpretation of what CE is; I'll give you that.
I'm never particularly pleased with this sort of thread, because it basically, sort of, becomes an us vs. them. And we are all players on the same server. I love Ronso, I love that he freaks out my little flighty elf of flightiness.
I don't think evil or good PCs have it made. Evil's get to do all the things I wish I could do with my character.. *whistles* I mean I would never want to torture another character.. *looks around shifty eyed*. So instead of jumping on that band wagon, I'll just type ,for those who wish to read, how I tend to play my evil character and maybe some can do the same.
I prefer LE. I love evil with a cause. I also tend to play my evil characters in such a way as they don't know they are evil. I of course OOCly am fully aware, but the character itself doesn't believe it's evil but right. For me the scariest sort of evil isn't the person who knows they are evil, but the person who is so committed to their cause that they honestly have no idea how truly jacked up they are.
I also just for me will make another login for my evil PCs, not because people can't figure it out, because if someone asks I will flat out tell them, but for me it keeps things separate. Call me Crazy.
I've actually been toying with some ideas on an Evil PC, and I have one that I'm not playing.. but You sexy necro's call to me.
Evil can be fun, evil can be blatant, but if you run around with a child at the end of your pitchfork everyday, others are going to call you out on it.
I prefer the flavor of evil with perfect manners. I like to play Polite Evil and Rude Good, probably a juxtaposition sort of thing. But no one character is just one thing, even in alignment you are two parts. Lawful, Chaotic, and Neutral vs. Good and Evil.
Anyways, I understand what the OP was trying to do, put out a public service announcement stating that if you are playing like an idiot; stupid things will happen to you. But evil players I think that this perceived victimization (that some of you have) of yourself is just that perceived.
Evil isn't easy, but can be far more rewarding, and I've never minded loosing. Good might appear to be easier as to gain a party, but that is because of the setting. I've played on servers where being the good guy made you the minority and the faction harder to be aligned with.
but play on and have fun. And I'm a wordy nutter.
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Post by Savoie Faire on Oct 10, 2011 15:10:58 GMT -5
If you examine my post most critically, you will find nothing which says you should not play an evil character. In fact, I explicitly stated that if you desire to play evil, do not do so stupidly.
And yet in the response to this post we have a handful of players of not-stupid evils, (and others,) defending the play of evils.
I play evil characters who will scare your socks off. You probably won't meet them to your knowledge, because while overtly evil, my characters are discreet.
I do not favor 'good' PC's over 'evil' ones. Ask the players of low-level characters if I as a DM have overlooked them. I try to interact with all of the low level PC's and only fail to do so because of time limits on my play. While I do not ignore evil PC's, I also do not seek them out. I just play with whoever is there at the time.
I don't care if you wish to play an evil or good character, nor your reasons for choosing as you do. I don't care what they do on other servers. My concern is that each player have the opportunity to have fun here. To address what I perceive as a growing problem, I posted on a subject which we all seem to agree is an issue here. I offered a possible solution.
Some of the players of evil PC's have already done so in this thread, but I would like to ask the rest: Instead of defending the actual play of Evil PC's, (which was not my topic whatsoever,) try to teach players new to our server how to play successful Evil PC's in FRC.
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Post by Savoie Faire on Oct 10, 2011 15:13:44 GMT -5
As a side note: How many of you believe the ratio of good to evil favors good on this server?
The DM team always gets a good laugh out of this one, as we actually get to see the character sheets!
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Post by arisnorman1 on Oct 10, 2011 15:24:32 GMT -5
in all honesty it seems good out weighs the evil here. but idk i am sure most we play to be good are CN or some other odd ball alinment heh. but evils get the worse rep aris is played how CE is stated in the PnP handbook read the description of CE you will see aris reflects it almost to a T. never ment to insult any but all it seems like is when people make these posts is they bash evils. now for all who pestered me BETTER!?
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Post by Dobian on Oct 10, 2011 15:40:00 GMT -5
Some of the players of evil PC's have already done so in this thread, but I would like to ask the rest: Instead of defending the actual play of Evil PC's, (which was not my topic whatsoever,) try to teach players new to our server how to play successful Evil PC's in FRC. It's not that hard to be successfully evil here if the definition means accomplishing an evil deed and getting away with it. To me, a successful evil character is one where the player understands what makes the character evil, what drives them, motivates them. And role playing it so that their actions in the game are consistent with how the character is defined.
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trebarruna
New Member
"There are some ideas so wrong that only a very intelligent person could believe in them. "
Posts: 83
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Post by trebarruna on Oct 10, 2011 16:31:22 GMT -5
As a side note: How many of you believe the ratio of good to evil favors good on this server? The DM team always gets a good laugh out of this one, as we actually get to see the character sheets! I remember last year chatting with a DM about this subject, and how we come to the conclusion that NG/CG or LG chars were quite rare. Most prefer to be just on the neutral side, and plenty - from what I could tell, even if I only know IC and OOC like... a handful of them, were evil. Sometimes it may seem that there are more good chars than evil, but thats because part of those evil prefer to keep a low profile and perform their deeds without letting anyone know, blaming it on other events.
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Post by iangallowglas on Oct 10, 2011 16:42:03 GMT -5
As a side note: How many of you believe the ratio of good to evil favors good on this server? The DM team always gets a good laugh out of this one, as we actually get to see the character sheets! It doesn't suprise me at all that the number of evil characters outway the number of good characters currently being played on this server. As a player that tries to play his good characters as good and not neutral (heck my neutral characters probably should be good as well), I find it difficult to find a party to travel with. My characters call evil, evil and routinely get told they are bigots and intolerant and these obviously evil people are nice (blah,blah) and so a fair number of PCs on the server ignore my characters now, which is alright with them as characters, and me as a player (my evils try too look good as well). My good characters also won't travel with known evil characters, which is they way it should be unless there is a good RP reason (and not just I need gold, or I'm reforming them even though they continue to summon demons, raise the dead, etc.). There are many that IC say they are good on FRC that are neutral at best which may be good RP fooling my characters (and me) into thinking they are good when they are actually evil, but part of me is pessimistic and figures that's not the case. (I would guess that the majority of characters on the server are neutral in one way or the other).
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Post by The Supreme Watcher on Oct 10, 2011 21:09:04 GMT -5
As a side note: How many of you believe the ratio of good to evil favors good on this server? The DM team always gets a good laugh out of this one, as we actually get to see the character sheets! I think that there are VASTLY more evil PCs than good PCs on FRC. After playing a Paladin here for a year, lemme tell you, it's not easy to find people who want to stick with a Paladin. If you attempt to have some in game standard of righteousness for who you party with, you will severely limit your choices of party members on FRC. To paraphrase a friend of mine... "Yulena is, I think, the only other Lawful Good character around my level on FRC." What?! Cormyr is a Lawful Good society! How can there only be TWO Lawful Good characters?! But this is, sadly, true. Too few people enjoy the role play of being Lawful Good. It's a delicate balance between being stern and being merciful, and a lot of people just can't hack it. It's a lot easier to just be Neutral, or even Chaotic, and have all of your interactions be an open book, to pick and choose your allies day by day, and let bygones be bygones. But that's not constructive role play. Role play is not getting pick up groups and doing dungeons - role play is establishing a personality, goals, and ethics for your PC, and then building their personality through friendships, conflicts, and realized or forsaken goals. I'm not going to sit here and tell you how to create a personality for your PC, or what their goals should be, I will just tell you that whatever your goals, they should fit with the Source and Setting - that way they will be believable, and more achievable than non-Source or Setting-based goals. I think that the large number of PCs with Chaotic, Neutral, or Evil alignments directly correlates to people desiring ease of interaction over integrity of character. Furthermore, I think it has to do with this strange idea that law automatically equals bad. I've never understood that, and I happen to have a great deal of respect for both law and order. So, I guess that I think FRC leans towards the bottom right-hand corner of the alignment grid, for reasons that are, in my opinion, largely without merit.
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Post by quelunia on Oct 10, 2011 22:34:41 GMT -5
All I got to say to the LG Paladin, and the poor me's... start a character with a bald tatooed head.... guarantee you arent getting a party. Its hilarious, but that is how my character went evil to begin with, I totally appreciate the not being able to find a party.
The people that avoided my characterr, they have helped steer and mold my character to what he is now. I started out wanting to be a pure caster, however the RP that was thrown my way left my character as a loner. So I did some research, developed my character through RP a little at a time. Now, I have a firm idea of what I want to portray, and I think my character really pulls it off. So to all of you who hate bald headed tatooed faced people thanks.
My character no longer has the bald head, RP lead him to grow out his hair. He still has the tatooes, though he still gets invited to parties, however he is so used to traveling alone by now, and the constant nagging to get buffs that steers him right back to wanting to be alone. He travels nicely with other casters. Though he doesnt travel well wit many melees.
Yes, my character will become a Blackguard due to RP, and he is the servant to a demon well lets just lay it out there, my character will be a BG of Grazz't unless I can work another angle..... As Grazz't is a demon that constantly womanizes, I try to emulate that somewhat as being my evil side. To date my character has worked out what is evil that way. Also, he has to do sacrifices, I have done that as well, and I have RPd that out to a perfect tee for those that have had this happen to you, I appreciate the not squealing. So far only one character escaped mine when he set his eyes on a sacrifice.... and I had kept up with it till recently when I started trying to work another angle. If i dont get the one way, I am going ot be more than happy with the other.
Evil isnt, in your face out to rip your throat out at a moments notice all the time, though, if ripping a throat out can be gotten away with, why the heck not? Evil is really about being a billy bad arse and run around killing just because you can, if there is a group of people, sure kill all but one...that one is your harbringer of fear... Or as my character would do it.... Corrupt the party... " I will allow you to live, if you give me a sacrifice... one of your number, and I will allow you to move on in peace." Thats evil, it forces others to make a choice. It makes others pick what you want...sure they could all fight, but giving people the option to live for sure and sacrificing a party member? Hummm, most give someone up. By getting the gaurantee to survive...
I remember when I first started playing here a few years back, thee was a guy that used to charge players to pass areas, it was protection money. I thought that was the coolest idea I ever saw for a evil cahracter, he was a highway bandit really. I am sure not many of the so called good guys would enjoy someone doing that, but it was funny to me as an evil player, it also made me strive to be that guy to be the one that was strong enough to tell someone else something along those lines.
There is a way to use low level players to further your ideas, it includes new players to the server, it even encourages older players that started a new guy. I try like heck to build a network.
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elysiumfields
Old School
Two Kit Determinator
Flavour text is tasty
Posts: 512
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Post by elysiumfields on Oct 10, 2011 22:36:05 GMT -5
Not everyone plays tabletop D&D like us and are not inclined to look beyond a class and take up a character concept like fealty, honour, failure, idiocy etc to base their character on.
Cormyr is a lawful good society and PCs make up a lot less than one percent of it. so the balance is still well protected.
Based on my experiences of running servers since the game came out the majority of people play neutral and chaotic and evil characters because they aren't that way inclined in reality and this game offers an output to explore those areas in a safe environment where they can have fun doing it, because having fun is more important to most people than playing any one class.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2011 22:46:18 GMT -5
I would guess that the most popular alignment on FRC is neutral, rather than good or evil.
There are definitely some LG characters out there, but surely it's not the most popular alignment. My active LG character tends to stay with the same group of characters that she trusts and knows for the most part ...
I also don't think that having a neutral character means that it is necessarily easier to party with a wide range of characters. It depends on how you rp your character. If you play a CN (or even CG) character as overtly chaotic you should also alienate a lot of lawful characters. I know I have ;D
If one is going to complain about the CE tending corner of the bracket, one should probably note that lawful characters are too accepting of chaotic characters when parties are formed.
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Post by The Supreme Watcher on Oct 10, 2011 23:40:15 GMT -5
I wasn't complaining about the CE-lean or saying good PCs have it hard.
I also don't mind people playing evil - I need someone to stick my sharp end into, after all.
Just RP consistently and intelligently, and you won't have any OOC complaints... save from people who do not role play consistently, or intelligently.
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Post by Savoie Faire on Oct 11, 2011 1:57:27 GMT -5
I apologize again, this time for making a comment which derailed my topic.
The topic isn't about the percentage of lawful to chaotic or the ratio of good to evil.
The topic of this post is to avoid being the kind of evil which can lead to the perma-death of your character.
If you want to be a raving, stark-mad lunatic, please do so in a way which will not have every other PC either avoiding you or chasing you with torches and pitchforks every time you login.
If you want to play any evil character, have fun with it, but please do not make the other players choose between rolling with overtly evil and/or criminal behavior or ignoring your character.
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Post by Dobian on Oct 11, 2011 11:18:05 GMT -5
There is no forced permadeath here though. Although being ignored by other players would effectively have the same result.
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elysiumfields
Old School
Two Kit Determinator
Flavour text is tasty
Posts: 512
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Post by elysiumfields on Oct 11, 2011 16:08:14 GMT -5
Interesting point, Dobian.
Perhaps there should be enforced permadeath for certain crimes.
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