Orkid
New Member
"Faster and faster , until the love of speed takes away the fear of death!" - HST R.I.P
Posts: 73
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Post by Orkid on May 31, 2005 16:47:32 GMT -5
It seems to me that most often if people got mad at someone "back in the day" they would go up and punch them in the face long before anyone ever whipped out there two handed sword and hewn someone in the shoulder , why dont more people do that here? i realize monks throw in a flaw to this equation but if you pick a fight with a monk you better know before throwing a punch , anyways my point is , for a lot of PVP it would seem to me that there is no reason for lethal force. What ever happened to having it out fisticuffs style , you get out yer anger bloody up the person (or get bloodied) and that's it , argument over. Why is it necessary to instantly go for the kill , it doesnt seem very good RP to me , killing people has consequences ... what does everyone else think?
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Post by Artemisa on May 31, 2005 16:52:38 GMT -5
If someone is having a heated discussion in a bar it would be much more realistic that a punch would be delievered long before any weapons are drawn, though of course it depends what maniac you are argueing with...  |
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Post by Thrym on May 31, 2005 17:00:56 GMT -5
Hey, if you bug evil priests and ignore their warnings, you shouldn't be surprised if your soul tries to escape your body. But I have to agree here. Most people would not use lethal attacks, only... uhm... certain ones  Artemisa: you call my char maniac? Look at your own |
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Misha Aogail
Old School
Player of: Torian Burrfoot, Misha, Whisper, and Oriana Gant
Posts: 324
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Post by Misha Aogail on May 31, 2005 17:06:09 GMT -5
Hey! Tori's settled all but ONE of her PVP problems through fists. After losing all the time, she pretty much has said screw it and chooses to use her sword instead. But, like I said, two fight she's had with nothing but fists... She tried... Lost badly, even to a person who was several levels below her. Sometimes a person can only take so much beating like that before they decide to just want to slice people up instead.
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Post by DM Richard (Retired) on May 31, 2005 17:19:01 GMT -5
Besides you aren't talking about a farmer fighting his neighbor in a bar room brawl. The people involved are seasoned adventurers which most towns dread to have show up because they little more than glorified mercenaries.  |
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Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on May 31, 2005 17:33:39 GMT -5
Reminds me of the time Jargo drew his rapiers on Torian for insulting his god and fighting style. Also, I thought I was very into PvP, but seems recently everyone has been cleaving each other in two. Usually I/Hroth dont resort to violence unless there is no other alternative, or unless it is very profitable (for Hroth not me  . I think people have a tendency to think about the game as only that, and thus the repercusions are much less. I always think about stabbing someone with my shortsword as todays equivalent of shooting them. So for any good character to join in on a fight a start trying to cut the opponent to ribbons i think deserves something of an alignment hit, unless it is self defense. I think this will become something less of an issue once subdual damage shows up. |
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Post by Talus on May 31, 2005 17:39:11 GMT -5
almost all (twice) of Vashal's Pvp was with his fists, but if Vashal hit you, you knew it. Partly because he was too mad to remember to pull his sword. Kam well he probably would pull blades unless he was drunk. But I agree fists first blades later
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Post by MithrilBlade on May 31, 2005 17:39:46 GMT -5
Actually monks are supposed to be able to freely choose to do whether subdual or fatal damage.
I have never PvP'ed but I'd imagine I'd rather use stunning fist than killing the person (unless my char would hate him).
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Post by soulfien on May 31, 2005 17:41:34 GMT -5
Remember though adventurers are trained killers. Consider the result of picking a fight with a special forces guy.
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Orkid
New Member
"Faster and faster , until the love of speed takes away the fear of death!" - HST R.I.P
Posts: 73
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Post by Orkid on May 31, 2005 18:27:09 GMT -5
oh Shazzar , this was in no way directed at you , that was so long ago , it was just a thought that came across my head with all the recent PVP posts and maybe to give people some perspective that you dont have to try an kill someone when you've been "wronged" why not even send a message before PVP to the effect of , 'ok this is a Near Death fight whoever get's the other to Near Death first, stops and is the winner' everyone should be agreeable to that. I'm aware we're adventurers (essentially special forces, whatever) but not everyone is a "trained killer" infact the majority arent, but as was said we're basically just glorified mercenaries who therefore should be held to even higher expectations. So what we are not just yokels fighting in a bar room, which bar room brawls do happen (to me!  ) , just because we are seasoned adventurers ,we are not above the law. In PnP i always had the Harmonium on my PC's in a matter of rounds if they started busting it up in public . Im aware it's possible (even likely) that you arent going to be able to stop your character before they deal a killing blow what with crits and d.4 hit points etc. but if you cant beat someone up you shouldnt be starting fights like that , it's pretty much metagaming (poor RP whatever) , to be like oh well , i can always respawn let's get down. plus even though IC, there's virtually no lawful repercussions, that shouldnt be how it is thought out in the characters head and RPed. (again this is not directed at you Shazzar , ya maniac ;D ) |
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Gusty
New Member
Posts: 58
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Post by Gusty on Jun 1, 2005 22:23:24 GMT -5
The first PvP Thorstein had here he beat Angelus' Mortiss to death in the street with his fists *he went to jail for it*
Thorstein stripped to his loincloth and pummelled Gial to the ground with his fists. *allowed Gial to live*
If Thorstein challenges someone he generally gives them the option of choice of weapons and armor. Unless they are a spellcaster. These get the axe without question.
Pretty much the RP dictates the combat. Naturally I would think that a fistfight in a bar would obviously carry a much less penalty if broken up by the authorities then a sword fight. it just goes without saying. keep it in mind the next time you want to settle a score. do it with your fists. old school.
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Misha Aogail
Old School
Player of: Torian Burrfoot, Misha, Whisper, and Oriana Gant
Posts: 324
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Post by Misha Aogail on Jun 1, 2005 22:38:55 GMT -5
Settle it with fists, or find a nice dark basement, or secluded wood and finish it there. |
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Post by Spooks on Jun 1, 2005 22:49:07 GMT -5
With Thrulia, whenever Hroth or Vind Peaved her off she'd give em a stunning fist lol. Wasnt till afterward that when she became darker that she just pulled on her acid gloves XDD... even once with Tori, thrulia sent a stunning fist first before tori distracted her and escaped lol.... but other than that... these PvP events are meant to kill them, not to teach em a lesson... actually... there was that one time in the wood swith Vind and Valan... but that wasn't the same thing... bah Im rambling...
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Post by Munroe on Jun 2, 2005 1:16:14 GMT -5
Engine-wise, rogues can have a problem with a fist-fight if they swing first because the target is flat-footed and there is sometimes a risk of unintentional engine sneak attack. Of course if the other guy swings first then no problem. Also, a Taunt on a character is considered an attack for purposes of a return attack so if you don't want to accidently "sneak attack" a character, taunting will engage them to swing first unless they're in parry mode, which is a good way to keep your character from fighting back if you have low points in parry.
Having said all that, for purposes of "Who started this fight?" situations, Taunt should be considered an attack since it can lower AC and does provoke the opponent into swinging as an engine response.
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Misha Aogail
Old School
Player of: Torian Burrfoot, Misha, Whisper, and Oriana Gant
Posts: 324
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Post by Misha Aogail on Jun 2, 2005 9:23:27 GMT -5
Yes... And if someone successfully taunts a person in such a way as the taunt is not heard by the general crowd (come on... It's possible to whisper insults to someone. The taunt ability is just a sort of extension), then all anyone would see is that person throw the first punch and the taunter get off free... It could and/or has happened... |
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Post by Booze Hound on Jun 2, 2005 10:47:55 GMT -5
With Thrulia, whenever Hroth or Vind Peaved her off she'd give em a stunning fist lol. Wasnt till afterward that when she became darker that she just pulled on her acid gloves XDD... even once with Tori, thrulia sent a stunning fist first before tori distracted her and escaped lol.... but other than that... these PvP events are meant to kill them, not to teach em a lesson... actually... there was that one time in the wood swith Vind and Valan... but that wasn't the same thing... bah Im rambling... teaching me a lesson huh? i se how it is, shame I was such a bad mamma jamma that it just made me mad. ;D remember the campfire, just before the slaughter...ah the good loe days when PvP was a lot of this *comes from the shadows and puts a kinfe to your throat* makes a dice roll and humiliates someone. course Thrulia could probably whup my butt now ;D |
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Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on Jun 2, 2005 11:44:46 GMT -5
course Thrulia could probably whup my butt now ;D Ummm no she couldnt ... ;D |
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Post by kenny26 on Jun 2, 2005 14:48:12 GMT -5
Yes... And if someone successfully taunts a person in such a way as the taunt is not heard by the general crowd (come on... It's possible to whisper insults to someone. The taunt ability is just a sort of extension), then all anyone would see is that person throw the first punch and the taunter get off free... It could and/or has happened... i strongly disagree to this. there is no way to know when a person will throw a taunt at you and there is likewise no way to keep yourself from counter attacking unless you somehow predicted the taunt and thought "oh i better go into parry mode to keep myself from attacking". taunt is the single most abuse skill i can think of when used in this way. the game engine says a taunt is an attack, so i say a taunt is an attack! i once saw someone walking up to a mage taunting him which forced the mage against his will to deliver his very weak counter attack with his staff (which he was roleplaying to be a cane by the way) and then the fighter killed him in one or two hits. the fighter then claimed that the mage had taken offense to something he said and that the mage had thrown the first blow! oh that made me so furious... a DM took possesion of a guard and arrested the fighter. the mage got off with taking a light penalty for defending himself with offensive magic. in this case the taunt was badly abused to trigger an action that any mage in his right mind would never take, and the DM did the right thing by arresting the fighter for being the one who started the fight. a taunt is an attack because there is no way to avoid getting into a fight when you get taunted. IC you can think of a taunt as dragging the punch so it looks like an attack to onlookers and it is aimed at angering the target, but by all means is just as offensive as an actual punch. getting back on topic... yes i used my rapiers against torian because he just lost his temper and wanted to spill blood... the jail sentence and a hefty fine consisting of more or less all of my savings made sure jargo would never lose his temper within city limits again... ;D i can see that fighting with your fists is more logical and may be good for settling an argument. another thing that can also enrich PvP battles is to do a little ooc planning to make things dramatic. example: jargo had by fool's luck stumpled upon jandor in the forest north of isin and he had wanted to kill jandor for some time now. i send the tell warning of PvP and got his consent (that was before the rules were changed, i know) and we started killing each other. he polymorphed into a pit fiend form using a scroll, but the interesting thing is that he also used a macro to trigger an emote, descriping the fiendish shape as being made out of ice (him being an aurilite i thought that was very cool). i was much stronger than him still and i began to sab him of his hitpoints. he reached badly wounded and started running away. i persued him, and while doing so i send him a tell asking if he would like me to let him do a dramatic escape. he agreed so i chased him up a hill and when he reached the top, he did an empote *spreads his wings and takes off* i thought it was very good roleplay and stopped persuing him, seeing as he had a valid reason to escape.  |
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Misha Aogail
Old School
Player of: Torian Burrfoot, Misha, Whisper, and Oriana Gant
Posts: 324
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Post by Misha Aogail on Jun 2, 2005 15:36:37 GMT -5
Another thing people are forgetting is... This is a medieval society... This means that things weren't only settled through fists, but honor duels with full armor and weapons were done as well.
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Post by Munroe on Jun 2, 2005 18:51:33 GMT -5
Yes, Taunt is an attack. I was saying use it as an attack to avoid killing your target by an accidental sneak attack. Taunt the action -IS- an attack. If you really want to taunt another player, you type out your taunt, you don't click a button and click them. Whispering a taunt is not the same as using Taunt.
Anyway, you're right, that's an aside. On with the main discussion.
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Post by Booze Hound on Jun 3, 2005 6:55:39 GMT -5
Ummm no she couldnt ... ;D oh yeah she's dead huh...dernit |
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. I think people have a tendency to think about the game as only that, and thus the repercusions are much less. I always think about stabbing someone with my shortsword as todays equivalent of shooting them. So for any good character to join in on a fight a start trying to cut the opponent to ribbons i think deserves something of an alignment hit, unless it is self defense. I think this will become something less of an issue once subdual damage shows up. 
) , just because we are seasoned adventurers ,we are not above the law. In PnP i always had the Harmonium on my PC's in a matter of rounds if they started busting it up in public .
