JCrux
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Post by JCrux on Oct 10, 2008 16:21:36 GMT -5
I've had a sort-of discussion lately regarding how dragon disciples appear, in particular those that are half-dragon. I thought I'd raise those issues here and get some community feedback. Obviously I have an invested interest in this because Rastan is half-brass dragon. (If your PC doesn't already know this then don't act on it.)
1. Dragon scales. Dragon disciples develop scales that are described as "tiny iridescent scales, nearly invisible at first but becoming more noticeable at higher levels." These scales grow and get tougher over time (hence the better AC). When do these scales grow big enough to be seen? (Should we require spot checks?) Is it possible that scales on different parts of the body are different sizes? For instance, perhaps the scales on the face and hands are smaller (and not so visible) compared to the torso, legs and arms. I've been working off an assumption along those lines. That's why Rastan keeps his arms and legs covered and only exposes his hands and face.
2. Dragon wings. At level 9 a dragon disciple gets wings. Are these easily hidden or difficult to hide? My feeling is that most animals with wings are able to fold them up flush with their body, so half-dragons would as well. Couple that with a cloak over top, and then add a backpack, scabbard and sword, quiver and bow, various bags and other supplies, and everything else an adventurer carries with him, and the wings are not easily discerned.
Are there more physical traits than these? According to one web site I looked at about half-dragons "their appearance betrays their nature—scales, elongated features, reptilian eyes, and exaggerated teeth and claws. Sometimes they have wings." So, should half-dragons be obvious? Maybe I'm wrong for assuming I can hide Rastan's draconic nature. Since NWN doesn't grant claw and bite attacks I don't really see giving our dragon disciple PCs exaggerated teeth and claws. But I'm curious as to what the community thinks. Should dragon disciples be as visually draconic as this site suggests? (Which I assume they quote from source material.)
One more thing. At level 10 dragon disciples get +2 charisma. This suggests they become more appealing to people, not less so. I haven't heard an explanation but I assume this charisma boost comes from developing something like the awe inspiring presence dragons have. I'd love to hear other explanations.
Anyway, I see three scenarios possible.
1. Half-dragons are able to hide their nature from the general public and go about their lives as before.
2. Half-dragons are obvious but the general public treats them no different. (Perhaps a society that tolerates half-orcs can tolerate half-dragons just as well.)
3. Half-dragons are obvious and the general public shuns them as freaks of nature.
I don't really see option 3 as being playable. That would mean a half-dragon would be shunned in any town and no merchant would talk to them.
Keep in mind I said "general public." Individual PCs are free to keep whatever prejudices or concerns they may have. To be honest, I expected more PCs to react negatively to Rastan's draconic nature. When done well these conflicts can make for some great RP.
Anyway, I'd love to see several ideas on this and a general consensus emerge. I'm willing to adjust my RP to go with what the community agrees on.
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Post by Charon's Claw on Oct 10, 2008 16:37:22 GMT -5
Well, generally how I see it is however the player wants to RP it out. I know some may wish to embrace that heritage more and may take a further step to become more like the draconic aspect of their birth. Also I do feel that the more levels you take in it, the more draconic in appearance you become. Though, it would be for sake of RP thicker scales that are easily covered. Wings that can easily be concealed, since they're useless for flight and thus smaller. The eyes I feel should be reptilian in appearance but not so much that they glow or call undue attention to them at far distances. So, the basic should have that I think as they grow in level, but should be able to conceal this appearance for the sake of RP. If the player wishes their character to further embrace the draconic heritage they can roleplay out more of these racial traits as they see fit.
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Post by EDM Neo on Oct 10, 2008 16:45:12 GMT -5
One more thing. At level 10 dragon disciples get +2 charisma. This suggests they become more appealing to people, not less so. I haven't heard an explanation but I assume this charisma boost comes from developing something like the awe inspiring presence dragons have. I'd love to hear other explanations. Just a comment in regards to this part, mind that charisma doesn't -always- mean more likeable, although it very easily can, and frequently does.
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Myth
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Retired FRC DM
The Myth
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Post by Myth on Oct 10, 2008 17:08:06 GMT -5
I'm kind of opinionated on this one so just keep in mind it's just my opinion and not a rule or anything.
I feel that the DD class is one of the classes that bring a lot of advantages regarding how powerful a PC is in combat, the character gains bonuses in stats as he goes up in levels and in general becomes quite a powerful meleer even if he started as a sorcerer.
Thus I would encourage a player taking this class to bring progressively more inconvenience to his character social-wise because from my point of view the 'unnatural' element of the DD's appearance is actually the only "drawback" that comes with the class.
So in other words, in my own, humble opinion, the 'opposed' weight on the scale that makes things balance is the social-disadvantage and/or shunning that the progressively more and more unnatural appearance will bring to a person that has embraced his draconic heritage so much that he's way beyond mortals.
Also I think that as one progresses in levels the draconic heritage grants more and more traits not only anatomy-wise but also personality wise. Considering dragons in general I'd expect after a certain stage the PC to more or less adopt and exhibit those personality traits that their true dragon counterparts would.
I also am not sure about hiding a pair of wings that actually in PnP -enables- him to fly under a simple cloak. I know in NWN engine-wise you cannot fly and the wingset seems quite small but if we follow the PnP source an RDD that reached the stage to grow wings -can- fly... so the wings ought to be able to support his/her weight.
Of course as DM Charon's Claw said, it is up to the player to find the balance between 'realism' and fun. But I still think that the growing inconvenience of the 'commoners' being a little uneasy or scared at the weird appearance of a DD spawns roleplay too.
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Myth
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Retired FRC DM
The Myth
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Post by Myth on Oct 10, 2008 17:32:55 GMT -5
I've also added more details about the half-dragon template that in PnP is applied to any DD that reaches level 10 and "Dragon Apotheosis" in the Dragon Disciple Topic : frc.proboards37.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=prclore&thread=7715&page=1 . Note that according to the Half-Dragon template, a half-dragon of medium size (human, half-elf etc.) would not get wings by the half-dragon template, but keep in mind that this is not really needed, since he gets the wings at level 9 by the DD class Thought I'd post the update here too since it's a thread about the Dragon Disciple PrC.
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Post by EDM Entori on Oct 10, 2008 17:37:35 GMT -5
I'm not much of a specialist on DD's or the class, but .. Wings are something I know,
Wings, on birds mostly proportional to their size, however lift on a 'wing' has two factors, lengths and width.. the division of the span by width is aspect ratio, the same ratio in length and width, weather reversed, or not create roughly the same lift.
So short but FAT wings would support proportionally the same lift as long and slender wings..Immersively, and given rastans character.
Short and fat wise would be the way to go I think, and easier for the character to hide.
just a suggestion outside of DND world
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Post by Munroe on Oct 10, 2008 17:41:00 GMT -5
I don't think the descriptions of the basic half-dragon physical appearance has any impact on the appearance of a character that has acquired the half-dragon template through progression in the Dragon Disciple class. The only physical appearance changes I'm aware of with the dragon disciple class are the scales and wings. Medium half-dragons don't acquire wings as part of the actual half-dragon template, and they tend to look very draconic while the dragon disciple would look more human. I would tend to think a player could play up their draconic appearance if they choose to do so, but for the most part, dragon disciples look like scaly humanoids with reptilian wings. Half-dragons that were born as half-dragons look more like reptile men with dragon heads. Do I think dragon disciple half-dragons look different? Yes, I do. I don't think they look anything like natural half-dragons though. The creature on the left is a half-black dragon from the Monster Manual. (The winged creature on the right is a half-fiend.) This is the image of the Dragon Disciple from the Dungeon Master's Guide: If you look at his fingers and toes, they definitely don't look normal, but he looks nothing like the dragon-headed fellow above. Being a dragon disciple is something a character chooses to do, and it is tapping a thin dragon bloodline to manifest draconic traits that are beneficial. I think it were intended to have extreme negatives associated with it, they'd be documented in the class description. I do think it should be fairly hard to keep secret though, and everyone will react differently to other races. It would probably generate some odd looks and negative responses. As for covering the wings with a cloak... It's possible but there's a fair chance the cloak would have a very odd silhouette.
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Post by Charon's Claw on Oct 10, 2008 18:56:03 GMT -5
Also I think that as one progresses in levels the draconic heritage grants more and more traits not only anatomy-wise but also personality wise. Considering dragons in general I'd expect after a certain stage the PC to more or less adopt and exhibit those personality traits that their true dragon counterparts would. I think this is a good suggestion as well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2008 18:59:47 GMT -5
I agree with everything Munroe has said here, thats why he is the most powerful of the triad.
Did you come up with this post while showering, or shaving?
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Post by Munroe on Oct 11, 2008 13:44:51 GMT -5
I agree with everything Munroe has said here, thats why he is the most powerful of the triad. Did you come up with this post while showering, or shaving? Actually I posted that from work. Don't hijack the thread though, yo. I think there's room in the PRC for people to go all monstrous but I think that amounts more to looking like one of the human-like yuan-ti at the higher levels than looking like a natural half-dragon. It still looks "alien" to most humans but not to the extreme of having a full-on dragon head motif. I think there's room for them to go monstrous, but I think there's also room for them to come out of it looking more-or-less human. Personality-wise, I wouldn't want to pigeon-hole them. Dragon Disciple has no alignment restrictions as far as I can see, not even among the individual dragon types. Now, the half-dragon template DOES have the alignment restriction of being the same alignment as the dragon ancestor, but this is not mentioned among the changes to make to finish applying the half-dragon template to a dragon disciple in the DMG. It does say that the dragon disciple takes on the half-dragon template, but then goes on to mention the benefits of that application and no alignment shift is among them. I wouldn't force one on a dragon disciple myself, but I think it's open to interpretation.
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Post by gnomegun on Oct 14, 2008 9:11:34 GMT -5
I've been waiting for a thread like this to begin for a very long time Thank you Myth for also creating this subboard about PrCs. I hope it helps future RPers out when they consider what PrC to take, given the information available and likely the discussions to come. I'll indulge on my character, Sharteel, my first RDD and one of my favorite characters currently. I'll discuss her draconic heritage, the process, and just a lot of things, etc. I hope that this in some way helps future RDD’s or inspires new things. Also, please keep in mind; unless you meet/see her, you don’t have a clue about what is written here.Before my first RDD Level:- I had made Sharteel's eyes change. The pupils became slits. The whites of her eyes remained white, and the irises were never affected. Vision, in terms of how well she can see, is still the same. - Her sweating rate increased drastically. Therefore, the need to quench thirst also skyrocketed. Her appetite in general began to shift to a more savage need of wanting fresh, raw meat for a while - Her skin began to be very itchy. Certain spots had more visible red scales than other spots, while some sections of her skin were perfectly fine. I considered it a phase when it'd come and go, depending on how much she scratched it. She'd get dry skin too and it'd be flaky, having a need to apply lotion a lot - Her mood overall began to change. She started feeling the need to hoard things more and progressively became a bit greedier and greedier until she eventually found some remote sense of balance for that - Sharteel isn't too young but not too old; being in her early to late 40's, and has a past where she had 4 children. Due to her heritage she's starting to develop a more youthful look to her face, appearance, and in her eyes this is a blessing that a mother of 4 really needs. This inherently also affects her behavior in other manners too. An aside to this all:I took certain steps in the process of her becoming an RDD because I'm presently role-playing herself to have a very STRONG draconic heritage in her, and overwhelmingly so at times. Keep in mind that her heritage is that of a Red Dragon too, and female red dragons are -very- bitchy. My First RDD Level, and Then On:- Tiny Scales are present. Her skin has a permanent reddish tint to it. Her hair was once blonde, now it's succumbed to a red coloration (like her skin), as well. - Her canines are extra sharp - Her hands and feet appear a bit more claw like (I hadn't originally planned for this but I saw the neat picture Munroe posted - The whites of her eyes are a permanent blood-red color - Rather than bulking out like some Hulk, she'll remain the same size with her increasing strength, as a reflection of "inner power" (like Ki), being present when she needs to use her newly found strengths - Her physical appearance is changing overall as noted. At this stage she's now looking like she once was back in her early 30's. This is to prepare for the charisma bonus. Eventually her face will warp slightly so that her eyes become more almond shaped and a little cat-like, but not overly so - She's grown restless even more, and sometimes going a day without rest - Gold and jewelry are necessities in her daily life now - When it comes to pleasing her, there needs to be a suitable boon in order for her to treat another well, or they'll need to show utmost respect, as she develops a superiority personality. She'll be good to get along with when you're not on her bad side. - Hormonally speaking.. that's been affected as well, so people can stretch their imaginations there. That aside, she's developed a new urge to mother things again, often babying-people who have treated her exceptionally well. Her chemistry has greatly changed overall along with the personality. She's more fussy on her decisions than ever before, as previously she didn't give two-cents on thought when it came to certain decisions. She insists on bathing 5 times in a day to remain clean, having developed an annoyance to dirty things and becoming a clean-freak. She's even more vain now too. Indulging further on her psychology would be very, very long, so I'll just keep it at that Sharteel's psychology is one of my favorite things to discuss and explore. I put in a lot on in-depth time coming up with my character's psychology - Plums of black smoke can be seen coming out of her mouth. She can't spit fire yet, but it's a sign of things to come. - Eventually she'll be developing irritating back pains due to the wings coming in. I will not be hiding her wings either when they burst out of her (which will be a very interesting scene to rolepaly if anyone is around her). She's height is 6'1, so I don't see it realistically possible for her wings to be hidden. When In Public:- If she's being addressed by a guardsman, she'll likely respect their position as long as they treat her fairly. If she's not treated the right way then she'll likely humiliate them behind their backs or flat-out kill them if the situation is right - If she's being addressed by an adventurer, regardless if they might be epically stronger than her from accounts she may have heard, she'll still treat them like she would "anyone else" - If she's being addressed by "anyone else": she'll not care for their name, their birthplace, or what they do. If they aren't useful then they aren't worth her time, unless they're kissing her ass, or gawking at the beauty she'll flaunt occasionally. if they're seeking her favor then again, she'd expect a suitable boon - Sharteel doesn't always hide her heritage. She embraces it quite a bit infact and is inlove with the change because of how youthful its making her feel. She'll often walk around without her hood or helm to test peoples reactions. I, more than often, prefer having the hood or helmet on because my description is LONG, since I can't update my biography, so its just less of a burden for me to have to type out everything, each time a new person arrives And this is all that I can currently think of to type up. More comes to mind when I am in her shoes (which by the way is a very difficult position. Sometimes players can make it too hard on you as well, but I try to compromise.)In my mind I foresaw a certain level of intimidation from this change, so I invested in Intimidation points to reflect this Of course this is how I foresee how a Red Dragon Disciple should be played (at the very least my own creation). I've yet to meet any of the other RDD's in game myself, so that'll be interesting when it does happen. I will say that her past and deity also do presently have an affect on her developments too, but that goes without say. Please try not to knock things down too much here if anyone plans on nitpicking at anything; I get rather defensive when it comes to talking about her ;D Edit: I fixed some spelling errors and I also wanted to say...as she progresses more and I learn more, she's likely to change all the more. Going from a human-mentallity to that of a red dragon mentallity (more or less), can't be an easy process.
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Post by gnomegun on Oct 14, 2008 9:29:54 GMT -5
One question that always came to my mind was the following: Why does the dragon breath come before the fire immunity? Shouldn't that be reversed? It always made me frustrated some. To me, if fire spits out of my mouth from the depths of my being, I would think my organs would burst from overheating, since I'm not immune to fire yet lol I'm contemplating whether or not I'll give her some type of "sack" underneath her chin/between her neck that contains her breath weapon. It'd likely be an elastic sack that expands and glows a red-hot color when she's about to spit, but I'm not sure yet It strikes me as realistic if her lips get burnt too and become a chared color, but if that's the case then what about the tongue? Wouldn't someone who could spit fire and not be immune to it (at the same time that is), not even have a tongue? That's a predicament of mine It's why I've been thinking about not even letting her spit fire until she's developed fire immunity due to this conundrum. I just can't grasp a realistic approach to it at this point, without having some serious side affects like burnt skin, no tastebuds, etc...So if anyone has thoughts on how to go about that, then please share
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JCrux
Old School
Posts: 603
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Post by JCrux on Oct 14, 2008 10:06:54 GMT -5
I've always considered a dragon's breath weapon to be chemical based in some fashion. - poisonous gas - easy enough to imagine
- acid - maybe a strong acid like stomach acid that it can spit out, or maybe the combination of chemicals that produce acid when spit out
- fire - a combustible gas that is heated enough to ignite while exiting the body, or perhaps its ignites when it reacts with oxygen in the air
- cold - a chemical reaction, like those cold packs athletes use
- lightning - this one is harder to explain. Perhaps a line of ions created by charging a gas as it passes through an electric field in the dragon's mouth.
Anyway, as far as breathing fire goes, I imagine Rastan being able to produce a combustible gas that ignites rather than having a fire burning inside him constantly. The force of the exhale would keep the flame moving away from his face and fully ignited outside of his mouth rather than inside. That's the best explanation I could think of to explain why he doesn't burn himself. That being said, it would make more sense for an RDD to gain fire immunity gradually rather than total immunity all at once at level 10. I would have designed the class with a progression something like this. Level | Breath Weapon | Fire Immunity | 1 | | 5 | 2 | | 10 | 3 | 2d10 | 15 | 4 | | 20 | 5 | | 25 | 6 | | 30 | 7 | 4d10 | 35 | 8 | | 40 | 9 | | 45 | 10 | 6d10 | 100% |
This way the RDD's fire immunity is generally stronger than the breath weapon they produce so you don't have questions about why they don't harm themselves. But they didn't consult me, so oh well.
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Post by gnomegun on Oct 14, 2008 10:12:38 GMT -5
That is a very good design That is also a very good thought about the breath-projection thingie At one point I considered taking the feat, Resist Fire (5 Damage Resistance), just for the breath, but to then later on have a 100% immunity to fire then 5 Damage Resistance just seemed goofy to me As I was reading over my question too, I also considered the fact that there are healing spells available, so it very well could be roleplayed (in the manner of a 'fade to black' scene - you assume it's being done), that the RDD would get their burnt marks treated too, unless they just do it themselves if they have a unique means Lipbalm would only go so far I like the present thought that Jcrux presented so far though Makes things more enjoyable and less overburdening
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Post by Grozer on Oct 14, 2008 11:21:38 GMT -5
Just my opinion here take it for what its worth but I believe RDD is very much underplayed... not necessarily Rastan as I have had little if any interaction with him but in general. 1. Dragon scales. Dragon disciples develop scales that are described as "tiny iridescent scales, nearly invisible at first but becoming more noticeable at higher levels." These scales grow and get tougher over time (hence the better AC). When do these scales grow big enough to be seen? (Should we require spot checks?) Is it possible that scales on different parts of the body are different sizes? For instance, perhaps the scales on the face and hands are smaller (and not so visible) compared to the torso, legs and arms. I've been working off an assumption along those lines. That's why Rastan keeps his arms and legs covered and only exposes his hands and face. Even small scales would not look like a human's skin, so unless you are somehow covering up your face as well I would suggest even the commoner would notice something is not "normal" about Rastan. Add to that he is half brass.... well his scales are most likely going to be tinted to some degree. It might take a seasoned adventurer or someone that has a knowledge base to "know" what they are seeing but I would have to say even the average Joe is going to see something is going to stand out. 2. Dragon wings. At level 9 a dragon disciple gets wings. Are these easily hidden or difficult to hide? My feeling is that most animals with wings are able to fold them up flush with their body, so half-dragons would as well. Couple that with a cloak over top, and then add a backpack, scabbard and sword, quiver and bow, various bags and other supplies, and everything else an adventurer carries with him, and the wings are not easily discerned. I guess with enough "packing" on the persons back, they might be able to conceal the wings but that wouldnt be uncomfortable? Most people underplay the difficultly of walking around in armor all the time I cannot imagine there being no discomfort in hiding a RDD's wings like that for long periods of time. Are there more physical traits than these? According to one web site I looked at about half-dragons "their appearance betrays their nature—scales, elongated features, reptilian eyes, and exaggerated teeth and claws. Sometimes they have wings." So, should half-dragons be obvious? Maybe I'm wrong for assuming I can hide Rastan's draconic nature. Since NWN doesn't grant claw and bite attacks I don't really see giving our dragon disciple PCs exaggerated teeth and claws. But I'm curious as to what the community thinks. Should dragon disciples be as visually draconic as this site suggests? (Which I assume they quote from source material.) I fall back on my first comment as I dont think its possible to completely hide Rastan or any RDD's racial characteristics. You may be able to soften them, but again while a commoner might "know" what they are looking at, they are going to see Rastan is different than all the other locals even if slightly. One more thing. At level 10 dragon disciples get +2 charisma. This suggests they become more appealing to people, not less so. I haven't heard an explanation but I assume this charisma boost comes from developing something like the awe inspiring presence dragons have. I'd love to hear other explanations. As another already posted, charisma doesnt necessarily mean appealing. Charisma means many different things, leadership, ability to keep a straight face (bluff), good looks, etc. In RDD's case I put it along the lines of a general confidence they have. RDD's have the blood of one of the powerful races within them, their lineage alone would be enough to inspire fear or courage. (Perhaps a society that tolerates half-orcs can tolerate half-dragons just as well.) Yes well in my opinion too many overly accept half-orcs as well, so I wouldnt go along with that comparison.
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Post by gnomegun on Oct 14, 2008 11:34:49 GMT -5
I like to keep in mind Munroe's post, and that the extent of how monsterous the RDD can look like is player-dependent (meaning, by opinion) Some things are difficult to go hard-core out on due to playability mostly Plus, anyone ever meet an RDD irl? LOL And, grozer brought up another curiosity of mine...wings and armor I was thinking of downgrading from full plate mailing to half, or to a chainshirt, actually.
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Post by Micteu on Oct 14, 2008 12:26:09 GMT -5
Maybe she will need modified armor. After all, I believe full plate was supposed to be custom-made to the person? She might need help getting it on and off, but I can think of a certain Glandash character who wouldn't mind at all.
But I deviate from the topic. I would say one of the biggest ways a character would react is defined by the character. Stop for a moment and say to yourself, "Let's ignore the fact that I want our characters to be friends (or maybe enemies). How would my character really react to this?"
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Post by The Supreme Watcher on Oct 14, 2008 12:31:49 GMT -5
HAH! OH YEAH! *wink wink*
Dragon chicks ftw.
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Post by catmage on Oct 14, 2008 13:11:07 GMT -5
According to Draconomicon, page 8, true dragons produce their breath weapon through a gland called the draconis fundamentus, which serves as a sort of channel for their innate ties to elemental energy. The gland secretes an unnamed substance into the lungs that the dragon combines with it's exhaled breath to produce it's weapon. I've played Ailren's breath weapon as being produced from a less powerful but analogous organ.
I've played Ailren's nature as being slightly closer to a natural half dragon, as his draconic ancestor is also his maternal grandfather. He was born the biological equivalent of an elf, and his transformation to half dragon was something of a second puberty. As he started to progress, he had less refreshing reveries filled with nightmares, he had fits of itching, an bouts of irrational anger, which increased each time he neared level up into a stage that would increase his natural armor (itching) or an increase in breath weapon dice (anger), then subside after a bit. His pupils slowly morphed into slits, and as he neared the final level in RDD, his once blue irises started to shift to a bright purple and his whites becoming slightly redder, his original eye color mixing with the natural progression of red dragon eyes to pure red orbs. They also glow a purple red in the same way and conditions that would make a cat's glow, though they are far stronger (darkvision, as opposed to low light vision).
Even though he doesn't technically have natural claw attacks, I've played his nails as growing constantly at an accelerated rate, which finally tapered off into them becoming about as long as the sort of nails a lot of women have, becoming completely opaque, and becoming as sharp and sturdy as the average dagger, since they should have the same damage potential, just in a different type.
Even though immunity to fire comes all at once in the class progression, I've treated Ailren as reacting to fire in a less dramatic way during the transition. For example, while he would still take damage to his person from extreme heat or fire based attacks, he would simply fail to feel it burn him, and his flesh wouldn't blacken or char. Internally, his body would of course be in the same lousy shape as anyone else with similar damage, but until the damage had him at near death, he simply wouldn't realize what was happening. Now that he has complete immunity to fire, sweating has stopped entirely, since he can't overheat, no matter how hot it gets. In what might seem like an oddity, he also doesn't feel cold as harshly as others, since his body temperature is much higher than a normal persons.
For his natural armor, I've seen Ailren's skin as turning a slight shade of red, as though he were constantly flushed. The scales are fine enough that they give his skin a smooth, glossy texture and appearance, enough to appear remarkable, but not enough to peg him as a more than humanoid creature unless a person was aware of what he was or seriously looking for signs of draconic individuals. They also lower his sensitivity to touch at +4, so that anything that hits him but doesn't deal damage just won't be felt, unless it hit him in a place where it seems illogical for scales to offer protection. I draw this from several source book references to higher natural armor meaning less sensitive skin.
The growth of his wings were a sudden, supernatural growth spurt with pain akin to that whole child birth thing some women type people talk about. Since they are purely cosmetic in NWN, I'd have preferred them to be absent entirely, as they're something of a white elephant RP wise. Since they're there though, and not even useful enough to provide any sort of bonus or positive use, they're small enough to be concealed under a cloak with minimal discomfort, though if kept hidden for too long, they start to cramp up and spasm, and if his cloak is disturbed from turning to rapidly or him being knocked onto his belly, the wings may show briefly or fly open altogether.
Psychologically, Ailren has always been odd. He has always had difficulty in thinking of humanoids as having more worth than say, a creature of the animal type. This has gotten worse, not from his progression through RDD levels, but an on going series of IC interactions. Except for a few select individuals, Ailren is able to work best with others when he equates them as something akin to property, and he in turn expects to be treated as property by creatures such as certain outsider races and True Dragons that acknowledge Tiamat as either their sovereign or as being among the greatest members of their pantheon. If he knows a person is wearing dragon hide, he reacts in the same way that the average man on the street would react to finding out your leather jacket was made from a human.
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Post by Grozer on Oct 14, 2008 13:29:58 GMT -5
Psychologically, Ailren has always been odd. No you dont say! Odd would be a mild way of putting it... for what its worth Ailren is extremely well played character.
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Post by ShadowCatJen on Oct 14, 2008 14:07:54 GMT -5
*nods and points at Ailren*
Being the one RDD that my character knows on FRC I was going to point him out. The way Ailren has progressed as a Dragon Disciple has been constant. I could recall before how Ailren used some small illusions to cover up some of his transformations. Keeping the majority of his skin covered while still trying to make himself look normal so as to not freak people out. Dulling the look of his sharp teeth.
Now that's he's gone through the more advanced transformations that +2 Charisma has kicked in through the form of him being proud of that dragon ancestry. A full confidence in his knowledge about his scaly kin. To use the "second puberty" reference, Ailren has lost the awkward gate of pre-pubescence and has moved on to the grace (or ego) that young men end up carrying in their later teens.
For my own character her first reaction to meeting a Dragon Disciple who had some of the transformation done was that of ... whot-tha-nine-be-tha? She didn't know that such beings existed other then in fantastic tales. But not being one to judge by look (she spent most of her life around guys who looked like thugs after all) she treated the situation with wary curiosity. When the DD expressed an interest in hiring my character to make clothes to fit her growth spurts, a relation was established and Myn didn't bat an eyelash after that. She eventually got to making clothes for the DD to compensate for the wings and color co-ordinating for the odd skin color.
... heh! Just realizing that in all of my characters encounters with those of dragon kind (be they DDs, half-dragons, or full dragons in mortal form) tend to be clothes horses! It's almost been consistent on any and all of the servers I've played a tailoring character on. ;D Could be that whole "clothes equal status" deal and for a dragon that would be important.
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Post by gnomegun on Oct 14, 2008 14:30:15 GMT -5
... heh! Just realizing that in all of my characters encounters with those of dragon kind (be they DDs, half-dragons, or full dragons in mortal form) tend to be clothes horses! It's almost been consistent on any and all of the servers I've played a tailoring character on. ;D Could be that whole "clothes equal status" deal and for a dragon that would be important. I can foresee many good things if Sharteel ever meets myn *has an entire invatory page dedicated to clothing*
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JCrux
Old School
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Post by JCrux on Oct 22, 2008 10:25:43 GMT -5
According to Draconomicon, page 8, true dragons produce their breath weapon through a gland called the draconis fundamentus, which serves as a sort of channel for their innate ties to elemental energy. The gland secretes an unnamed substance into the lungs that the dragon combines with it's exhaled breath to produce it's weapon. I've played Ailren's breath weapon as being produced from a less powerful but analogous organ. Thanks for sharing that. I'll incorporate the gland idea into Rastan's dragon nature.
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JCrux
Old School
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Post by JCrux on Oct 22, 2008 10:28:56 GMT -5
The growth of his wings were a sudden, supernatural growth spurt with pain akin to that whole child birth thing some women type people talk about. Since they are purely cosmetic in NWN, I'd have preferred them to be absent entirely, as they're something of a white elephant RP wise. Since they're there though, and not even useful enough to provide any sort of bonus or positive use, they're small enough to be concealed under a cloak with minimal discomfort, though if kept hidden for too long, they start to cramp up and spasm, and if his cloak is disturbed from turning to rapidly or him being knocked onto his belly, the wings may show briefly or fly open altogether. I wish the wings were absent as well. I totally agree that they are "a white elephant RP wise." They always generate questions like "can you fly?" while you never will. Plus all the questions about how to hide them (for those that want to). Its interesting to note that the wings are not present in NWN2. But since they are there I like how Catmage treats them. And I tend to think of how birds treat their wings. They can sit for hours with their wings folded flush against their body, but once in a while they get an urge to stretch them. All limbs need to be stretched occasionally to keep from cramping up. So, yes, someone on a trek for hours/days on end would have a hard time hiding their wings that long and would experience great discomfort. But it shouldn't be a problem to hide them for a few hours in a tavern.
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JCrux
Old School
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Post by JCrux on Oct 22, 2008 10:32:03 GMT -5
One more thing. At level 10 dragon disciples get +2 charisma. This suggests they become more appealing to people, not less so. I haven't heard an explanation but I assume this charisma boost comes from developing something like the awe inspiring presence dragons have. I'd love to hear other explanations. Just a comment in regards to this part, mind that charisma doesn't -always- mean more likeable, although it very easily can, and frequently does. As another already posted, charisma doesnt necessarily mean appealing. Charisma means many different things, leadership, ability to keep a straight face (bluff), good looks, etc. In RDD's case I put it along the lines of a general confidence they have. RDD's have the blood of one of the powerful races within them, their lineage alone would be enough to inspire fear or courage. You two bring up good points and I agree. Grozer worded it well when he talked about a RDD's confidence. What I was trying to say is that the confidence can be "appealing" in a leadership role, or making the RDD more persuasive, or intimidating, or what have you. Often times people will often obey/react positively to a person who exudes self confidence and dismiss a meek, mild person. That's what I was trying to say but didn't word well. Maybe the RDD isn't more "appealing" as being more likable but there is something about them that gets a (for them) positive reaction from people.
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JCrux
Old School
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Post by JCrux on Oct 22, 2008 10:42:31 GMT -5
Since I started this thread I thought I should write up a more detailed description of how I see Rastan. I'm mostly sticking with my original concept of how I see him and adding a few things inspired from this discussion. First, this description of brass dragons. At birth, a brass dragon’s scales are a dull, mottled brown. As the dragon gets older, the scales become more brassy until they reach a warm, burnished appearance. The wings and frills are mottled green where they join the body, and have reddish tints at the outer edges. These markings darken with age. Development wise I see Rastan as a "young dragon" as well as an adult human. Therefore, I see brown and dull brass being a more dominant colors in his appearance than bright brass. Rastan is a big, burly guy. Always has been. Growing as a dragon disciple, and the strength that comes with it, means larger muscles being added to his already large frame. He has roughly the strength of an ogre or small giant on a smaller body. He still has a bit of a "pouch" around his belly. (He enjoys his food.) I see him having tiny (hard to notice) scales where one needs fine motor movements such as the hands and face. The scales are larger and easily noticed on his upper arms, legs and torso. Rastan's skin used to be relatively pale. But because of his brass dragon heritage his skin has acquired some light brown coloring from the scales. The effect is to give the appearance of a weathered, tanned look like one who spends all his life outdoors. Those who don't look closely would dismiss the slight lines from the scales on his hands and face as dry skin. Those who look closer would think something is odd about the skin and a close examination of hands or face would reveal the scales. Rastan's skin is smooth and dry to the touch, not rough. Rastan's scales grow more resilient over time, especially where the scales are larger. Because of the hardened scales it takes more effort to pierce his body. His fingers are not becoming claws exactly but his fingernails are thicker and harder than normal, extending slightly past the finger tips. They are too dull to be an effective weapon but could be used to pry things with without worrying about breaking them. Rastan's hair has slowly darkened from the orange-red color he inherited from his father. It is now a reddish brown. Rastan's wings are only partially developed. They are thin, light weight, and are shorter than his arms. When folded they don't extend past his waist. They easily rest within the width of his broad back and shoulders. If viewed, they are a mixture of green and brown with a reddish tinge on the ends. Rastan's eyes are one of his strangest features. Instead of the round pupils of most humanoids he has eyes like a cat's eyes. This allows him to see better in the dark (darkvision). The iris is mostly brown with hints of brass flecks in them. In the low light conditions of a tavern or storeroom the pupils open up and look mostly round. Outside in bright sunlight they narrow to slits.
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Post by gnomegun on Oct 22, 2008 11:09:17 GMT -5
So it is possible to fly, however doing so in the game is difficult since there's really no means of doing so. If a party in Waymoot looses a companion (level 9) while exploring its outskirts and the companion needs to respawn, they end up in Isinhold. Likely the group went back to Waymoot to any temples there. There's no logical reason ICly why this happened, so it's considered an OOC act to caravan from said respawn point to Waymoot. In respect to the detail above, I fully intend on RPing flight with Sharteel's dragon wings by means of just purchasing a caravan ticket and going from town to town hehe. Pretty simple.. Sharteel stands at a height of 6'1. It seems illogical to me to try to attempt to hide her wings, especially if they are likely supposed to be proportionate to her body in order to attempt flight. You're looking at a massive wingspan with someone at the height of 6'1 . I heard a rumor that flying is disallowed on FRC, but I've reviewed the rules many times and can't find this. There's that, and I can't see why it wouldn't be disallowed, given example I displayed; the situations can be treated in a like-minded manner Still, if for some reason it is banned, I'd still have the wings proportionate to her body. I consider wings to be one of the "negative" and obvious drawbacks with the class [negative in regards towards how people can react to them when they see the wings], as it's a powerful class with many bonuses, so there's got to be some form of detrimental gain. I've developed with her now and one thing that can back into mind was the tongue. Could it progressively get roughened due to the flame? Would an RDD have the "sssth sssth" stuff when they speak...if anyone knows what I mean lol
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Post by The Supreme Watcher on Oct 22, 2008 11:31:10 GMT -5
When I was on Amia (HISSSSSSS) they had designed a widget that would allow you to fly to different set points on the map.
I think this would be along the lines of FRC's wizard's teleportation book, and I wouldn't see utilizing your wings via caravan as out of the question.
Of course, this widget would be intended for a very, very small audience (on Amia everyone and their mother built an RDD powerbuild), but shouldn't there be a reward for taking a class, any class, all the way to the end?
As a loophole, I would think that taking the caravan, seeing as how a widget does not exist on FRC, would be a perfectly reasonable substitute, save for constantly having to say "// lol hey guys im walking to the caravan OOC. i'm actually flying lol rofl rofl."
Get muh drift?
- This brought to you by homemade cookies, Pepsi, and intense boredom.
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Post by The Supreme Watcher on Oct 22, 2008 11:35:12 GMT -5
On another note.
Why doesn't someone just make an RDD named Deekin?
That would be cool.
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JCrux
Old School
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Post by JCrux on Oct 22, 2008 12:40:02 GMT -5
If anyone wants to RP flying from one town to another I have no qualms with that. The problem I see is flying over short distances. There is no game mechanism to mimic flying up/down a mountain to the next ridge. There is no mechanism to mimic flying across the short gap of a broken bridge to get to the other side. I could list many more short distance examples. I think the class would be very unbalanced/overpowering if there were such a feat/mechanism. Anyway, for myself, saying Rastan can't fly at all because his wings are still growing is an easy explanation as to why he can't fly those short distances.
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